stethoscope
Well-Known Member
This is truly thick fuck tag team.
Interesting piece about the SDP split
- Thread starter LeslieB
- Start date
Again, powerful.
I have never used the phrase continuity Blairism.
1) I'm not in a 'tag team' with Marky Mark or anyone else.
2) Please don't call me thick.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you will
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no one will play with you?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
... and yet you promote its works.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
When you have a minute @LeslieB, or @MarkyMarrk? Because frankly its difficult to know what either of you actually believe when you're mostly just regurgitating opinions from blogs and websites and you're incapable of actually arguing anything?
Jeremiah18.17
Well-Known Member
The tedious thing about the Blairite argument is they assume that Labour would win with a right wing leader and policies, the last two elections, changes in electoral boundaries and rules indicates that is very unlikely. Labour are currently likely to lose whatever, so quit the "you all prefer the Tories" crap about the left. If things really get bad, a radical alliance, as recently in other countries might stand a chance - there is more chance of such an electoral deal ( for electoral reform as major policy plank) under Corbyn or other left then under some reheated Blairite. Without electoral reform Labour are probably stuffed for the foreseeable anyhow.......
I posted up a link from the BBC because I found it interesting and thought others might too.
I'm certainly not about to give an in depth explanation of all my political beliefs.....
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
That wasn't what you were being asked.
What you were asked was, 'New Labour's economic liberalism, privatisation, PFI, private ownership at the cost of social and public provision and ownership - did you support that?'
As this is a UK politics, news and current affairs board that doesn't seem at all unreasonable; so how about it?
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Comparing the neoliberal Labour government of the 00's boom with the neoliberal Tory government of the following depression isn't really comparing like with like - are there any modern western governments hit by the financial crisis which aren't doing similar to the Tories, with varying degrees of enthusiasm?
Why are you so keen to know?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
In general terms because we're on a bulletin board discussing politics.
More specifically this particular thread is focusing on ideological and policy differences in the Labour Party.
In both instances the question seems not just relevant, but the very stuff of which these boards should be made.
So once more: 'New Labour's economic liberalism, privatisation, PFI, private ownership at the cost of social and public provision and ownership - did you support that?'
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
andysays
Love and solidarity
Maybe it would help if you said why you found it interesting. Some possible reasons might be
- you think it's a useful (accurate) historical report of something that happened 35 years ago
- you think it's interesting to see that the various people involved in setting up the SDP are still maintaining broadly the same line they were at the time, even though it proved to be pretty much the end of their careers as politicians with any power or influence
- you think it has some genuine relevance to what's happening in the Labour party today
- you think the piece is an attempt to manipulate the agenda to push a particular argument relating to what's happening in the Labour party today
- you're amazed that Williams, Owen, Rodgers and Hattersley are all still alive and/or that anyone thought it was worth interviewing them about something that happened 35 years ago
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it would be nice if you gave the impression you had some political beliefs
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
All that THAT is illustrative of, is the fact that whenever the going gets tough, the Labour right get going - straight out of the party. If the current Parliamentary Labour Party split, it'll not be because the leadership is actually too left-wing, it'll be because venal, power-hungry, self-regarding MPs on Labour's right wing decide to start a new party because they know they've gone as far as they can in Labour. Out of "the gang of four", the only real talent was Jenkins, and even he was past his political prime by '81.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Because that's really the only alternative, isn't it? You can either have a neoliberal shit sandwich from Labour, garnished with a few bits of short-term amelioration, or a neoliberal shit sandwich from the Conservatives, garnished with a bit of class hatred.
Either way, you end up chowing down on a shit sandwich.
I'm not sure why everyone is so interested in *my* political beliefs.
I mostly but not exclusively vote Labour.
On most things I'm left of Blair but right of Corbyn. On crime and immigration I'm right of Blair but left of Nigel Farage
OK?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
And on the specifics?
'New Labour's economic liberalism, privatisation, PFI, private ownership at the cost of social and public provision and ownership - did you support that?'
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
p.s. I didn't support those positions or policies.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Point one and point two were both due to the economic cycle, not to economic good management.
Great, a national minimum hourly rate - NOT a "minimum wage", that has trailed behind what people NEED to earn, to receive a "living wage", every year since its creation.
Inaccurate. That's 14,000 more police and PCSOs, the majority being PCSOs.
Nope. Cut an arbitrary group of crimes that excluded some of the most egregious, by 32%, and doesn't correct for the various changes in recording of crime during Labour's 13 years in power.
Based on different literacy metrics to those of the preceding government.
Something that's happened just about every year for the last 35.
No, funding AS AN AVERAGE has doubled. Not the same thing.
How long is a piece of string? What gets counted as employment?
More honestly, the debt of very few of the poorest countries has been 100% written off. Some of them haven't even had interest frozen.
I've only critiqued the first 10 points in your list, but that's enough to indicate that whoever compiled it is either foolish or dishonest, because they've gone for the most labour-favourable interpretation for each point, not the most accurate interpretation.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
How do you know how I see it?
Can't I object to PFI, PPP and all the rest on the very practical grounds that it has to remove capital from the service to satisfy the needs of the private lenders/partners; i.e. it is more expensive than a socially owned and democratically controlled alternative.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
People do care who runs their public services - the relationship between someone and a publically owned and run public service is quite different to their relationship with a service run for profit.
Consider how people feel about the BBC in comparison to how they feel about the other media companies: there's a lot more goodwill and expectation - ownership I guess. Privatisation, PPP etc are all ways of changing the relationship between the user and the service, as well as simply making money for the private sector. Possibly even it's primary purpose.
Consider how people feel about the BBC in comparison to how they feel about the other media companies: there's a lot more goodwill and expectation - ownership I guess. Privatisation, PPP etc are all ways of changing the relationship between the user and the service, as well as simply making money for the private sector. Possibly even it's primary purpose.
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