How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[brogdale]

(Really) not wishing to muddy any waters here...but this reported FT interview of Camila Batmanghelidjh caught my eye...

Its colourful founder, Iranian-born Camila Batmanghelidjh, told the Financial Times that government demands in return for crucial annual funding had become too onerous.

“There were three drivers that brought this to a head,” she said in an interview. “Number one: I kept telling the Cabinet Office enough was enough and we had to get our funding sorted out. Number two: I kept challenging the government about child protection issues; and number three: I was told about historic child sex abuse . . . involving senior very recent ministers.”

 

[laptop]

(Really) not wishing to muddy any waters here...but this reported FT interview of Camila Batmanghelidjh caught my eye...

​

So she was shut down because she Knew Too Much, not because she was too incompetent an administrator to receive government funds?

Look out for bankers claiming that they were fingered for fiddling foreign exchange rates only because they Knew Too Much.

 

[Bakunin]

And the Spectator sinks to a new low by featuring a piece written by an expert on paedophiles, a certain Jonathon King:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/07/jonathan-king-specator-controversy_n_7955434.html

With any luck there'll be a job vacancy behind the editor's desk some time soon.

 

[The Octagon]

And the Spectator sinks to a new low by featuring a piece written by an expert on paedophiles, a certain Jonathon King:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/07/jonathan-king-specator-controversy_n_7955434.html

With any luck there'll be a job vacancy behind the editor's desk some time soon.

Jesus

 

[Pickman's model]

And the Spectator sinks to a new low by featuring a piece written by an expert on paedophiles, a certain Jonathon King:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/07/jonathan-king-specator-controversy_n_7955434.html

With any luck there'll be a job vacancy behind the editor's desk some time soon.

tbh i don't suppose there's that many gay men who would respond positively to an approach by jonathon king.

 

[Pickman's model]

So she was shut down because she Knew Too Much, not because she was too incompetent an administrator to receive government funds?

Look out for bankers claiming that they were fingered for fiddling foreign exchange rates only because they Knew Too Much.

i was under the impression that if you knew this sort of thing then you wouldn't be closed down. and if she does know this and she didn't use it to prevent the closure of kc then what was the fucking point of knowing it in the first place?

 

[elbows]

Exactly. Unless she comes out with something of substance, I consider her words on that front to be a shameless disgrace. Pathetic, especially as in the same breath she denies any issues with how sex abuse was handled by her own organisation.

 

[elbows]

Janner legally required to attend hearing, even if only for a minute:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33814819

 

[DotCommunist]

Kincora in my Troubles reading again today- more claims that it was used as leverage. Interestingly the author refers to a 'homosexual vice ring' operating out of kincora, rather than noncery. Claimed as part of a wider dirty tricks campaign, including it being used to end the power sharing executive through dark means, i.e get the ulster strike endorsed rather than spiked. Not sure what to make of it all. The claims that this was done deliberatly to discredit wilson and his gov are certaiinly going to need more than the word of one ex spook

 

[Shirl]

Janner legally required to attend hearing, even if only for a minute:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33814819

I was recently a juror, on a 'trial of the facts'. It was interesting in the way it was different from other trials but I don't reckon it caused much if any distress to the accused who sat not in the dock but in the well of the court, completely at ease if a little bemused.

 

[elbows]

Well this is just a magistrates court appearance, and there is talk that they could even hold that hearing in his home. I'm not sure what will happen in regards the trial/trial of the facts.

 

[laptop]

one ex spook

Peter Wright?

 

[DotCommunist]

Peter Wright?

just checked- one colin wallace. no idea as to his overall credibility but it was interesting to see a book published over 20 years ago referencing things about kincora and the role intel had used its 'activities' for

 

[laptop]

just checked- one colin wallace.

Insert palm-down tilting-hand "comme ci, comme ça" smiley.

Ah, you were thinking the same.

no idea as to his overall credibility but it was interesting to see a book bublished over 20 years ago referencing things about kincora and the role intel had used its 'activities' for

I think it's safe to confirm that his credibility is disputed

 

[free spirit]

tbf, anyone claiming to be from the security services with inside knowledge of what went on at Kinncora who hadn't been subject of a campaign to discredit them would be a bit suspicious.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Kincora in my Troubles reading again today- more claims that it was used as leverage. Interestingly the author refers to a 'homosexual vice ring' operating out of kincora, rather than noncery. Claimed as part of a wider dirty tricks campaign, including it being used to end the power sharing executive through dark means, i.e get the ulster strike endorsed rather than spiked. Not sure what to make of it all. The claims that this was done deliberatly to discredit wilson and his gov are certaiinly going to need more than the word of one ex spook

TBF, what Wallace mentioned was an overall operation (Clockwork Orange) whose intention was to introduce anti-Labour disinfo/black propaganda into general discourse. The use of Kincora was MI5, the Green Slime and Ulster Special Branch taking advantage of an already-existing "honeytrap" operation that was itself constructed on abuse taking place at the home. Wallace (and Fred Holroyd) are both reasonably credible on this subject for ex-military spooks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Insert palm-down tilting-hand "comme ci, comme ça" smiley.

Ah, you were thinking the same.

I think it's safe to confirm that his credibility is disputed

His credibility has always been disputed.
Interestingly though, few of his core claims have ever been adequately rebutted, despite masses of journalistic talent being tasked to do so (I'm looking at the Telegraph papers here).

 

[DotCommunist]

Holroyd

Yeah thats the other name mentioned in this chapter of Dillons 'dirty war'. Insane stuff really, anyone who ever repeats the lie that 'we didn't go in gloves off' is getting a lecture. Short of stationing an artillery outfit a mile south of belfast and doing a grozny on the place, the gloves were off.

 

[laptop]

Clockwork Orange

Journalists from foreign news organisations would be given briefings and shown forged documents, which purported to show that politicians were speaking at Irish republican rallies or were receiving secret deposits in Swiss bank accounts.

People named by Wallace as having been targeted in this manner include Harold Wilson, Edward Heath, Merlyn Rees, Cyril Smith, Tony Benn and Ian Paisley.

In the context of this thread:

 

[laptop]

masses of journalistic talent... (I'm looking at the Telegraph papers here).

Reconsidering, the major journalistic talent involved here was probably the ability to file a story retailing what they'd been told by a spook who'd just got them ver, ver, drunk.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Reconsidering, the major journalistic talent involved here was probably the ability to file a story retailing what they'd been told by a spook who'd just got them ver, ver, drunk.

Back in the day (and as recently as Moore's and Lawson's editorships) there was no need to get 'em drunk - they just fed the ed the info, and some mutton-head would get tasked with building it up into a credible story.

 

[Lurdan]

Well this is just a magistrates court appearance, and there is talk that they could even hold that hearing in his home. I'm not sure what will happen in regards the trial/trial of the facts.

This is undoubtedly going on to the Crown Court, whether they have to make a special appointment to hold the Magistrate's hearing in a more convenient place so as not to 'unduly distress' Janner, or else employ the little used legal mechanism which has been discussed in the press to allow them to commit him to the Crown Court without his attendance.

As you say what happens at Crown Court is another matter entirely. It seems most unlikely that the Judge will not find him unfit to plead given both Prosecution and Defence agree about it. Clearly there will then be a robust case made by the Defence counsel retained by the Janner family that a 'trial of fact' would be unfair, not least because of any prejudicial press coverage in the period between the DPP deciding not to go ahead and that decision being overturned. (Things like a Daily Mail article which made a very serious and almost certainly untrue allegation about him). An article in the Guardian this week suggested that in the circumstances the Court would not want to accept such arguments against a 'Trial of Fact'. We shall see.

If it does go ahead then the Court will appoint counsel on Janner's behalf, almost certainly the defence counsel the family have retained. The state will pick up the tab for their subsequent services however. They will no longer be acting for Janner but for the Court (despite having been acting for him up to that point) and cannot offer a defence on his behalf. It will be their job to test the credibility of the evidence offered by the Prosecution on behalf of the court. It's not clear to me what limits there are to cross examination of witnesses at a Trial of Fact but it seems inconceivable that if, for example, the witness who testified about Janner at Frank Beck's trial gives evidence he will not have the same questions put to him about his motives for giving evidence in Beck's defence. The prosecution will still have to make their case. I suspect a good deal would rest on the strength of the evidence in the most recent Leicestershire investigation. If it gets that far.

 

[laptop]

Back in the day (and as recently as Moore's and Lawson's editorships) there was no need to get 'em drunk - they just fed the ed the info, and some mutton-head would get tasked with building it up into a credible story.

The spook didn't even need deniability?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The spook didn't even need deniability?

Deniability comes from the ed attributing the base of the story to "anonymous sources". I knew someone who left the Sunday Telegraph after being asked to place a spook-tale once too often. Ended up working for the Daily Fail, as I recall, where she got equally pissed off being tasked with wingnut features about the latest health fad/cancer cure/anti-ageing diet.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Yeah thats the other name mentioned in this chapter of Dillons 'dirty war'...

I hope your "Troubles reading" goes a bit deeper than Martin Dillon. I've had early morning shits that take longer to work through than one of his books. My turds tend to be better referenced too.

 

[DotCommunist]

I hope your "Troubles reading" goes a bit deeper than Martin Dillon. I've had early morning shits that take longer to work through than one of his books. My turds tend to be better referenced too.

it will do- I find it hard going. Not cos its hard as thinking hard its just. Any amount of fictional war and violence I can do before breakfast. The real stuff, well small doses in order to preserve ones MH. Next bit of study on this front is going to be that Devlin lady and also the history/roots of the INLA.

 

[tim]

And the Spectator sinks to a new low by featuring a piece written by an expert on paedophiles, a certain Jonathon King:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/07/jonathan-king-specator-controversy_n_7955434.html

With any luck there'll be a job vacancy behind the editor's desk some time soon.

One that Laurie Penny will be very pleased to fill.

(Clearly posted at a point were I managed to confuse the Spectator and the New Statesman)

 

[DaveCinzano]

Fred Holroyd's book can be had here:

http://issuu.com/bristlekrs/docs/abk023_holroyd_burbridge_-_1989_-_w

 

[DotCommunist]

My turds tend to be better referenced too.

Indeed, I heard the Bristol Stool Scale was based on your morning extrusions.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Christ.

I went to look at the "independent" panel page, hastily set up within a mere year of it being announced.

https://www.csa-inquiry.independent.gov.uk/about-the-inquiry

From which:

The Inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:

local authorities,the police,the Crown Prosecution Service,the Immigration Service,the BBCthe armed forcesschoolshospitalschildren's homeschurches, mosques and other religious organisationscharities and voluntary organisationsregulators, andother public and private institutions.



---------------------------------

See where has managed to avoid being explicitly named?

elsewise, it does seem they are doing much at the moment, but after a year getting round to existing at all, perhaps it was time to go a bit easy. It's only kids being fucked after all.