How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[justin credible]

Have been working hard with a friend on an interesting story.

Will post a link tomorrow

 

[justin credible]

oops a little late
hopefully you will all like this
a friend wrote it, I did some research, more fascinating information to follow soon
BoJo, Arcuri, and…Wesley Hall?


It is on the subject less of a VIP paedophile ring and more of a long term promoter of conspiracy theories about satanic ritual abuse and VIP paedophile rings and his connections to ...
well you have to read the piece

eta

Wesley Hall is not so affectionately known as the Weasel.

Here is just one of his many social media accounts

#OpDeathEaters

Also the video in the blog post of Jennifer Arcuri in Bristol in 2016 is very interesting

 

[LiamO]

The Anglo-Irish Vice Ring

The Anglo-Irish Vice Ring

MI5, MI6, Buckingham Palace, The Royal Ulster Constabulary and the exploitation of children in care by a VIP Anglo-Irish Vice Ring. By Joseph de Burca. Introduction: This online book draws together…

villagemagazine.ie

 

[Duncan2]

Can't seem to get that link to work-could have sworn it was working yesterday.

 

[tim]

Can't seem to get that link to work-could have sworn it was working yesterday.

It was!

Suspect what you will, Although, as far as I got, I didn't read anything that I haven't come across before, quite probably on here.

Search results for query: Kincora

 

[Duncan2]

Yeah thanks Tim-looks like the link that Liam has been directing us to has packed up atmo.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yeah thanks Tim-looks like the link that Liam has been directing us to has packed up atmo.

I think they just changed the URL, if you go to main page then scroll it's still there

The Anglo-Irish Vice Ring (Online Book)

MI5, MI6, Buckingham Palace, The Royal Ulster Constabulary and the exploitation of children in care by a VIP Anglo-Irish Vice Ring. By Joseph de Burca. Introduction: This online book draws together…

villagemagazine.ie

 

[Duncan2]

Brill got something to read after all cheers Proper Tidy.

 

[elbows]

I dont have time to follow this properly at the moment due to the pandemic but it seems the Janner bit of the inquiry is in progress:

'Culture of deference' may have protected Lord Janner, abuse inquiry hears

Alleged victims have had ‘justice denied’, barrister tells inquiry into child sexual abuse

www.theguardian.com

 

[elbows]

I see Welby has isued a full personal apology in regards abuse of public schoolboys at the evangelical 'bash camps'. Welby was a dormitory officer at the camps.

Archbishop of Canterbury apologises to abused participants in Christian camps

In the 1970s and 80s QC John Smyth abused boys who attended camps where Justin Welby worked

www.theguardian.com

I note from a much earlier article about the sadistic abuser in this case, John Smyth, that he was the QC who worked with Mary Whitehouse. According to his wikipedia entry, this included representing her in her blasphemy case against the Gay Times.

Public school defends role in alleged cover up of abuse at Christian camps

Winchester College knew in 1982 about allegations of abuse at the camps but says it didn’t go to the police to save the victims further trauma

www.theguardian.com

John Smyth (barrister) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I also note that the originator of those camps, E J H Nash had the nickname Bash, and 'was well known for his sense of humour, and his ability to create a happy atmosphere.[17]:31Chapman notes: "He was an unassuming yet eccentric figure who avoided tomato pips, took a bewildering array of medications, and enjoyed juvenile humour."

E. J. H. Nash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for the sort of regime Nash created at those camps, it sounded ripe for abuse to me. These are all quotes from that wikipedia page:

Nash made it his business to preach the Christian Gospel at the top thirty British public schools, and began a camp ministry which by 1940 was based at Clayesmore School in the village of Iwerne Minster. Attendance was by invitation only. He used military terminology: Nash was known as commandant, his deputy, adjutant and the leaders were officers.His prayer was "Lord, we claim the leading public schools for your kingdom."

Some have noted that Nash created an "oddly male, oddly elitist, and oddly simplistic world."[25] In 1969, it could be said that much of the leadership of the British Evangelical church had been "Bash campers"

Controversy is eschewed by "Bash campers"; it is held to be noisy and undignified - and potentially damaging. As a result many issues which ought to be faced are quietly avoided. Any practical decisions that must be made are taken discreetly by the leadership and passed down the line. The loyalty of the rank and file is such that decisions are respected; any who question are liable to find themselves outside the pale... It does not give a place to the process of argument, consultation and independent thought which are essential to any genuine co-operation, inside the church or outside it.

Bishop David Sheppard remarked that Nash could be "single-minded to the point of ruthlessness" and "courageous in challenging people about their actions or priorities," but that this could become "over-direction"; some even needed to make a complete break in order to be free of his influence.[14]:23

Even if some cast doubt in his "rigid focus" and his hope for a national "trickle-down effect"[10] in 2005 John Stott, his most famous protégé, was ranked among the 100 most influential people in the world by Time magazine.[26]Alister McGrath describes Nash and his ministry as one of the factors leading to the post-war Evangelical renaissance, saying his work "laid the nucleus for a new generation of Evangelical thinkers and leaders."

 

[tim]

I see Welby has isued a full personal apology in regards abuse of public schoolboys at the evangelical 'bash camps'. Welby was a dormitory officer at the camps.

Archbishop of Canterbury apologises to abused participants in Christian camps

In the 1970s and 80s QC John Smyth abused boys who attended camps where Justin Welby worked

www.theguardian.com

I note from a much earlier article about the sadistic abuser in this case, John Smyth, that he was the QC who worked with Mary Whitehouse. According to his wikipedia entry, this included representing her in her blasphemy case against the Gay Times.

Public school defends role in alleged cover up of abuse at Christian camps

Winchester College knew in 1982 about allegations of abuse at the camps but says it didn’t go to the police to save the victims further trauma

www.theguardian.com

John Smyth (barrister) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I also note that the originator of those camps, E J H Nash had the nickname Bash, and 'was well known for his sense of humour, and his ability to create a happy atmosphere.[17]:31Chapman notes: "He was an unassuming yet eccentric figure who avoided tomato pips, took a bewildering array of medications, and enjoyed juvenile humour."

E. J. H. Nash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for the sort of regime Nash created at those camps, it sounded ripe for abuse to me. These are all quotes from that wikipedia page:

I think the links and podcast below give a very honest insight from an evangelical perspective of what happened both at these camps, which included ten-hour caning sessions: "this was not Christianity but a sadomasochistic cult". They also cover the abuse of adult men at Emanuel Church in Wimbledon by the former vicar Johnathan Fletcher.




Richard Coekin and Jonathan Fletcher’s circle - Anglican Ink © 2021

Former vicar 'left to administer naked beatings' amid 'no action'



The first few minutes of the podcast may be a bit irritatingly evangelical, but bear with it.

 

[two sheds]

You'd think they'd show a bit of fucking humility by saying "We're really sorry, and we're not going to preach at people any more or try to make them feel guilty for going against stupid statements in this ancient book written by misogynistic homophobic racist old twats"

 

[two sheds]

I can never spell misogyny so I checked and the first search term

 

[19force8]

From a piece in this week's Private Eye, it seems there's more evidence of of conspiracy theories about high level paedophile rings fucking up the people who believe them than there is of such rings existing:

Three people (Edward & Janet Stevenson, 69 & 67, and Wilfred Wong, 56, a "non-practising barrister") have been convicted of conspiracy to kidnap a child from Anglesey. Three others had pleaded guilty, all women, but not named in the article.

This is the Satanic Ritual Abuse conspiracy from the 90s re-emerging among evangelical christians via Q-anon. Though I suspect it never really went away.

Slight digression - clearing out the garage the other week I came across a "fight the Alton Bill" badge from the late 80s when David (now Lord) Alton sponsored an anti abortion bill. In 2002 the same Lord Alton hosted a meeting in Westminster featuring Wong declaiming on the crimes of British satanists. Small world, eh?

 

[DaveCinzano]

All sounds bonkers and sad and I really hope the kid comes through all this okay.

Man turned down 'crazy' request to abduct a child from North Wales

The therapist, who was convicted of conspiracy to kidnap along with five others, tried to recruit the man as a getaway driver

www.dailypost.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

i tuned out of this thread a long time ago... in briefest terms, whats the answer to the question "How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?"

 

[Lurdan]

Though I suspect it never really went away.

Slight digression - clearing out the garage the other week I came across a "fight the Alton Bill" badge from the late 80s when David (now Lord) Alton sponsored an anti abortion bill. In 2002 the same Lord Alton hosted a meeting in Westminster featuring Wong declaiming on the crimes of British satanists. Small world, eh?

Yeah. Never went away, although for a long time it only became visible occasionally. For example the Hampstead SRA affair which kicked off in 2008, some elements of which prefigured the Pizzagate bollocks in the US.

Today we are in a 'golden age' of conspiraloonery in which a loud, very unpleasant minority are forming an activist 'counterculture' within which different strands of nonsense are merging together. A key element bonding stuff together has been 'Save the Children' rhetoric. There have been small demonstrations by SRA activists/grifters over the summer. I referred to the presence at one of them of the UK's godfather of anti-5G activism shouting anti-SRA and anti-VIP Paedo rhetoric here.

Another demonstration the other week concluded their walk by blocking traffic on Tower Bridge, the whole thing being live streamed by the partner of the organiser Jeanette Archer. It would be tempting to treat it as a joke but on the live stream, after they've abused security guards outside Freemason's Hall and County Hall, the cunt with the camera can be heard abusing a woman for child abuse because their child is wearing a mask.

And then there is this kidnap attempt - or 'attempted rescue' as it's supporters describe it. One 'Christian' infused strand going back a long time is of cunts and shitheads attempting to involve themselves in contentious custody and child protection proceedings. This included efforts to help parents at risk of having their children taken into care get out of the country. This North Wales attempted kidnap is an extreme development of this kind of thing.

Wong is an interesting character. Here's a report of a conference he addressed in October 2019 when anti-abortion activists were targeting Stella Creasy. It was organised by CBR-UK (Centre for Bio-Ethical Reform UK)

It recently hit the headlines after posting billboards featuring graphic imagery near Creasy’s constituency office. Its #StopStella campaign has specifically targeted the pregnant MP over her role in liberalising the law in Northern Ireland, where abortion was banned in 1861. (...)

While a lobbyist, Wong had an office in the House of Commons for 16 years. He is currently a director of CBR-UK, and a former director of another anti-abortion group, the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC). What he suggested – that sexual and reproductive rights progress is actually the result of Satanic machinations – was extreme. But it wasn’t original. This is a well-worn conspiracy theory, which claims that Satanists, including those in powerful political positions, ritually abuse adults and children to increase the devil’s power and impose an anti-Christian agenda on society. Wong said UK abortion rates are linked to high-profile Satanists who aim to “undermine and transform society”.

He accused former prime minister Edward Heath of being involved in ritual Satanic abuse, and prompted heckling and boos from his apparently pro-Brexit audience after referencing Heath’s role in bringing the UK into the EU in the first place. Jimmy Savile was also a Satanist, he added, but this was covered up by high-profile, Satanist media editors. Even some churches and the British government have been infiltrated by Satanists, Wong claimed, hence their reluctance to “deal with abortion”. He urged the room to challenge this. One audience member called out “Hallelujah.” At another point, attendees muttered “Amen”.

All sounds bonkers and sad and I really hope the kid comes through all this okay.

Sadly the child is very likely to be the focus of attention of cunts and grifters for a long time to come. This North Wales court case had severe reporting restrictions while it was taking place. Many have been lifted but there are still court orders banning the publication of the names of the child, their actual parents, the foster parents and anything that would identify them. As that Private Eye report says a couple of cunts have been done so far for breaching this. Others have had formal police warnings.

This isn't stopping cunts overseas from naming the child and commending Wong as a 'Christian hero'.

I mentioned the Hampstead affair. The children in that case - also involved in a parental access battle - were induced to make lurid claims of a satanic murder cult at their school by their mothers new partner. They were interviewed three times by the Police - in the third they admitted how they had been pressured to make the claims. The tapes of the first two interviews and a contact list for families and staff at the school were put into the public domain by Sabine McNeill, a fucking cunt who is now serving a nine year sentence for stalking and multiple breaches of court orders. All hell broke loose. The school, a local church and a local McDonalds all of which supposedly contained areas used for child sacrifice, were targeted for demonstrations. Parents were subjected to abusive contact from cunts worldwide. Two Americans who came over to 'save the children' were deported, one after serving a short prison sentence.

The mother of one of the children at the school gave an impact statement at Sabine McNeill's trial.

To this day my daughter is fearful and worries that our family will be attacked in our home - my husband keeps a crowbar under our bed. She struggles to understand why adults post material of a sexual nature about her online for the world to see. My daughter has had to assume an alternative name in certain aspects of her life, which is something that no child should have to do. We may have to consider fully changing our daughter’s name by deed poll. She may have to live with the stigma of being branded a satanic sexual abuse victim for the rest of her life.

The two children at the heart of the Hampstead affair are of course of particular ongoing interest from these cunts. Only this week a piece of shit put up a YouTube video describing how she'd managed to get in contact with their father. The tapes of the Police interviews still circulate. They are not just used by both grifters and shitheads as 'evidence of SRA'. They are also of course used as pornography by paedophiles. Since the internet never forgets they will be living with the consequences of this for the rest of their lives.

But of course none of this sort of thing is child abuse. It's God's Work.

 

[elbows]

i tuned out of this thread a long time ago... in briefest terms, whats the answer to the question "How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?"

If we take 'high level' to mean the very highest levels, and 'ring' to mean a certain level of organised stuff, then the answer is none, at least as far as strong, public evidence goes.

There is plenty of evidence about grotesque institutional failures, and enough evidence for me to conclude that certain well placed individuals in society were guilty of abuse. There is evidence of cover-up and turning a blind eye, and plenty of indicators about the shameful attitudes that enabled such things, and how some of those failings still linger. Plenty of stuff points to the usual 'closing rank' and 'protecting our own' and 'reputation management' motives, as opposed to clear signs of organised highest level rings.

It isnt possible to be sure because multiple things hampered the ability to obtain the full picture. The passage of time, the age of alleged perpetrators, poor mental health of some accusers, victims who killed themselves or didnt want to come forward in recent years, lost records, successful coverups decades ago or otherwise botched investigations, attitudes then and now, all get in the way.

In terms of the highest levels, almost everything and everyone who came up this time around were unsurprising, given that the high profile suspects this time tended to be the same people whose names emerged via gossip and rumours in the 1980s. Some of that might have been based on truth that is now lost, but some of it was probably due to dirty tricks and other stuff like attitudes towards the age of consent and closeted tory hypocrites when it came to sexuality in the 1980s.

Having said all that, it would be hard for someone to convince me that Janner was innocent, and there are a bunch of other names that remain of interest to me but about whom an entirely insufficient amount of decent evidence emerged. And without that evidence it can be hard to tell the difference between reasonable and unreasonable suspicions.

Some clearly misuse status and power, and a combination of shoddy institutions, attitudes towards listening to children, contradictions between public personas and private sex lives, made certain decades especially horrific for abuse and the potential to abuse and ge away with it.

 

[elbows]

Plus Cyril Smith was clearly guilty of certain things, and although the full extent of it remains unclear, he was a good example of corrupt local authorities and turning a blind eye, and further coverups at the level of national power and political parties.

The best things that came out of this stuff and the public inquiry include:

The opportunity to talk about some of the issues more.
A better look at widespread institutional failures.
A large number of prosecutions and investigations of abuse that involved people that were not at the very highest levels of power, but who still misused the power and local abuse opportunities they had at the time. And even where prosecutions were not possible, far more victims than ever before at least got to see the crimes committed against them taken seriously after all these years.
Hopefully better protection and more deterrents going forwards, although its hard to make claims about how many potential victims of the future wont end up being victims as a result of this.

 

[ska invita]

If we take 'high level' to mean the very highest levels, and 'ring' to mean a certain level of organised stuff, then the answer is none, at least as far as strong, public evidence goes.

There is plenty of evidence about grotesque institutional failures, and enough evidence for me to conclude that certain well placed individuals in society were guilty of abuse. There is evidence of cover-up and turning a blind eye, and plenty of indicators about the shameful attitudes that enabled such things, and how some of those failings still linger. Plenty of stuff points to the usual 'closing rank' and 'protecting our own' and 'reputation management' motives, as opposed to clear signs of organised highest level rings.

It isnt possible to be sure because multiple things hampered the ability to obtain the full picture. The passage of time, the age of alleged perpetrators, poor mental health of some accusers, victims who killed themselves or didnt want to come forward in recent years, lost records, successful coverups decades ago or otherwise botched investigations, attitudes then and now, all get in the way.

In terms of the highest levels, almost everything and everyone who came up this time around were unsurprising, given that the high profile suspects this time tended to be the same people whose names emerged via gossip and rumours in the 1980s. Some of that might have been based on truth that is now lost, but some of it was probably due to dirty tricks and other stuff like attitudes towards the age of consent and closeted tory hypocrites when it came to sexuality in the 1980s.

Having said all that, it would be hard for someone to convince me that Janner was innocent, and there are a bunch of other names that remain of interest to me but about whom an entirely insufficient amount of decent evidence emerged. And without that evidence it can be hard to tell the difference between reasonable and unreasonable suspicions.

Some clearly misuse status and power, and a combination of shoddy institutions, attitudes towards listening to children, contradictions between public personas and private sex lives, made certain decades especially horrific for abuse and the potential to abuse and ge away with it.

+ i presume there are 'fixers' like Epstein lurking in the shadows

 

[elbows]

I havent had a chance to explore the inqurys Janner conclusions properly myself yet. And their chosen angle in this case was really quite narrow. So for now here is a media summary of their findings.

Lord Janner: Police shut down MP child abuse investigations - report

An inquiry finds police seemed "reluctant to investigate" claims against former MP Lord Janner.

www.bbc.co.uk

Since that particular article doesnt go into much detail about certain things, here is another one from 2016 at an early stage of the inquiry about this.

Janner sexually abused children for 33 years, public inquiry hears

Late peer Lord Janner allegedly began sexually abusing children as far back as 1955, a public inquiry hears.

www.bbc.co.uk

Oh and the full report that I havent read yet:

https://www.iicsa.org.uk/reports-recommendations/publications/investigation/lord-janner

 

[Aladdin]

I was abused by Lord Mountbatten claims former boys’ home resident

A former resident of the East Belfast home has waived his anonymity to make the allegations

www.google.com

"Legal proceedings have been initiated against a number of institutions in Northern Ireland alleging that Lord Mountbatten abused a boy at a notorious Belfast children’s home in the 1970s.

Arthur Smyth, a former resident of the Kincora home, has waived his anonymity to make the allegations against the earl, a great uncle of the King."


Its not news that Mountbatten was a pedophile...and visited Kincora..

Book links Mountbatten to sex abuse at Kincora boys' home

A new biography of Lord Mountbatten, who was murdered by the IRA in Sligo in 1979, includes evidence linking him to abuse of children from the Kincora Boys’ Home in Belfast.The Mountbattens, by Andrew Lownie, includes two interviews with unnamed men who describe being brought from Kincora in the sum

www.thetimes.co.uk

But I think its a first case against the state accusung Mountbatten and the state where the Kincora home victim has waived his anonymity.

 

[teqniq]

Thanks for this. I initially saw a link on twitter a couple of days ago to an article in the Belfast Telegraph but didn't post it as it is paywall protected and the archived versions are no good either. Interesting that this has surfaced now, after the queen has croaked I wonder if they were (the legal team and the individual concerned) waiting until she died before disclosure?

 

[Aladdin]

Thanks for this. I initially saw a link on twitter a couple of days ago to an article in the Belfast Telegraph but didn't post it as it is paywall protected and the archived versions are no good either. Interesting that this has surfaced now, after the queen has croaked I wonder if they were (the legal team and the individual concerned) waiting until she died before disclosure?

Quite possibly..although the article detailing the book about Mountbatten was printed in 2019.

I went down a rabbit hole reading articles & watching videos about Kincora. It was well known who abused those poor boys. They were taken off to different locations across the UK.

The royals...the judiciary...lords...MPs...Orange order leaders...Religious leaders...MI5...its known that royal palaces were used for these parties.

I mean.....The queen must have known already. And Charles must have known. Andrew was feckin involved...

Its pretty obvious that these people all saw little wrong with abusing these boys.

Redirect Notice

One victim's account of what happened to him when he was in Kincora


... Ian Paisley knew about what was going on...as did RUC and unionist politicians and the Orange order.

 

[Lurdan]

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) have published their final report today.

Their website.

The Full Report (PDF) can be viewed or downloaded from here

An executive summary (PDF) can be viewed or downloaded from here

A rapid read with the report's conclusions (PDF) can be viewed or downloaded from here

The Inquiry conducted 19 separate investigations some more relevant to this particular thread than others.
The full reports from those individual investigations are all linked to from this page

However they have also produced rapid reads about them which can be found on this page