How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[Roadkill]

the latest allegation is that he raped a 12 year old boy.

If that turns out to be groundless, though - and it still might - then all that's left is the rumours that have swirled around Heath since the 70s, rumours which have always had a nastily homophobic edge to them (FWIW I do think he was probably gay, but so far back in the closet he was practically in Narnia). It seems wrong to perpetuate those sorts of attitudes, and I agree with existentialist about not calling people paedophiles without very good reason to do so. Best to wait and see, IMO.

 

[DotCommunist]

OK, well, that does put a different complexion on things. Is it a remotely credible allegation?

yep. Its quite clear now that for some time senior figures in british establishment and 'senior' society were perfectly happy to either cover up or engage in child abuse. I see no reason to doubt this persons allegation. Balance of probabilities is all we are getting you know that? It'll never be beyond reasonable doubt standards of proof because they won't allow it to get that far and besides, dossiers lost etc

 

[existentialist]

yep. Its quite clear now that for some time senior figures in british establishment and 'senior' society were perfectly happy to either cover up or engage in child abuse. I see no reason to doubt this persons allegation. Balance of probabilities is all we are getting you know that? It'll never be beyond reasonable doubt standards of proof because they won't allow it to get that far and besides, dossiers lost etc

I realise that we're going to be lucky if we get criminal prosecution standard proof, especially after all this time and with the apparently strenous efforts of The Establishment to muddy the waters at every turn.

But there's a difference between a credible allegation and something someone has just pulled out of their arse. Unfortunately, there will always be opportunists or attention-getters who will see the various revelations and want to go one better, and - again - it doesn't help make the case against these people when genuine (or genuine-seeming) claims are mixed up with wild and fabricated allegations.

 

[DotCommunist]

wild

after saville, after kncora, after righton-dolphin fucking square- I'm not sure there is a wild anymore. Its quite obvious that there was serious and organised child abuse going on by the rich and powerful on the most vulnerable. When the proven and known goes beyond what you ever considered possible from our sainted masters perhaps its time to start considering what went on and what a massive clean up operation went on.

 

[existentialist]

after saville, after kncora, after righton-dolphin fucking square- I'm not sure there is a wild anymore. Its quite obvious that there was serious and organised child abuse going on by the rich and powerful on the most vulnerable. When the proven and known goes beyond what you ever considered possible from our sainted masters perhaps its time to start considering what went on and what a massive clean up operation went on.

Absolutely, I agree that in general terms we cannot any longer rule anything out - "What, a senior MP, in a classy apartment complex, abusing kids???" - and I absolutely think that nothing should be off-limits in terms of investigating that stuff.

But it's a long reach from there to making very specific unfounded allegations about individuals: not that I am saying you're doing that, particularly in the light of this new stuff about 12 year olds, but I think the point is worth making as a general one anyway.

 

[Roadkill]

I see no reason to doubt this persons allegation.

There's certainly no reason it shouldn't be taken seriously - and thankfully it sounds as if it finally is - but all allegations need to be treated with scepticism for exactly the reasons existentialist has just given.

 

[DotCommunist]

There's certainly no reason it shouldn't be taken seriously - and thankfully it sounds as if it finally is - but all allegations need to be treated with scepticism for exactly the reasons existentialist has just given.

I think I see what you and existentialist are saying, I'm just recalling that Lord who wanted to sue all of twitter for a false claim against him. obviously that helped not at all.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Exaro reporting that their source 'Nick' (Dolphin Square etc.) told them that Heath had raped him.

ExaroNews ‏@ExaroNews 25m25 minutes ago
‘Nick’, regarded by police as a credible witness, alleges that Sir Edward Heath sexually abused him multiple times. More on Exaro soon.

ExaroNews ‏@ExaroNews 26m26 minutes ago
The Met started to investigate Sir Edward Heath last October after Exaro arranged a meeting between ‘Nick’ and detectives…

ExaroNews ‏@ExaroNews 31m31 minutes ago
Exaro can confirm that the Met has been investigating claims of child sex abuse by Sir Edward Heath under 'Operation Midland'. More soon.

 

[hot air baboon]

...funny that according to McGuire and Pierce on yesterday's Sky News press review they never heard even the slightest rumour to do with Ted Heath's private life...doesn't instil alot of confidence in their nose for a story....

 

[Barking_Mad]

Article here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ild-sex-abuse.html?via=desktop&source=twitter

 

[Kaka Tim]

I remember that bizarre ted heath court case - and the way the judge completely closed it down and the media moved on as if it hadn't happened.

 

[Roadkill]

Heath story all over the BBC. Really does seem to have legs now...

 

[Barking_Mad]

'Nick' speaks out about relief that Heath's name is now in the open.

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5...t-also-investigates-claims-of-child-sex-abuse

 

[Ranbay]

All this makes wonder what Brasseye would be like now.

See as we do seem to be nation ruled by nonces.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Is it reasonable to suspect that Heath may be thrown to the wolves for strategic purposes?

 

[laptop]

Is it reasonable to suspect that Heath may be thrown to the wolves for strategic purposes?

Wolves are, I believe, quite picky about carrion. He dead.

The only question is why Wiltshire police made an announcement now, rather than a couple of weeks ago.

The official start of the silly season guaranteed that they'd get maximum publicity for Doing Something.

If you want an ulterior motive, check out whether the force has been accused of pension irregularities, or letting people off for speeding, or something.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Wolves are, I believe, quite picky about carrion. He dead.

The only question is why Wiltshire police made an announcement now, rather than a couple of weeks ago.

The official start of the silly season guaranteed that they'd get maximum publicity for Doing Something.

If you want an ulterior motive, check out whether the force has been accused of pension irregularities, or letting people off for speeding, or something.

I knew the analogy was cronky. Vultures really. It's not just Wiltshire though is it? It looks like a ton of stuff now. I was wondering if, even as a former PM, he was considered safer territory than the heat on a more recent Foreign Sec, because there are serving cabinet ministers who could reasonably be assumed to have been informed about the latter. Heath is massive news that brings down no one. Brittan is big news that could bring down someone.

 

[existentialist]

Is it reasonable to suspect that Heath may be thrown to the wolves for strategic purposes?

Given that he's dead, it seems unlikely. We've seen enough of deceased celebs/politicians effectively "getting away with it" for me to think that anyone is going to be placated by a succession of conveniently late abusers. We've already seen how the post-mortem revelations about Savile have triggered a wave of allegations, which themselves have triggered more. The enquiries those have led to have resulted in a significant number of not-yet-dead perpetrators facing justice.

Anyone who thinks the bandwagon is going to be stopped by flinging a few elderly corpses in its path must surely be very badly mistaken.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Quite possibly so existentialist.

 

[Roadkill]

Is it reasonable to suspect that Heath may be thrown to the wolves for strategic purposes?

By whom do you mean?

 

[laptop]

By whom do you mean?

Them.

 

[Roadkill]

Them.

You don't say!

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

By whom do you mean?

Those aspects of this system that have had this covered up for decades. For example, MI5 didn't just waltz off with the Smith stuff on a whim. Nor did Dickensons paedo files just get lost down the back of a wardrobe. The repeat theme of higher up plod shelving investigations lower down, who thinks that is all coincidence?

"them" is whatever apparatus of the state has been doing this, with the reputation of the state as paramount far over justice for or interests of the child victims of rape.

 

[quiquaquo]

Them.

 

[andysays]

Is it reasonable to suspect that Heath may be thrown to the wolves for strategic purposes?

It's not just about whether or not Heath committed various sexual offences, it's quite explicitly also about whether allegations were properly followed up or swept under the carpet.

Edward Heath abuse claims: Four forces investigating ex-PM

The BBC understands Wiltshire Police halted an inquiry into a brothel keeper in the 1990s after she said Sir Edward was involved in child sexual abuse. The BBC's home affairs correspondent Dominic Casciani says claims made by the female brothel keeper, that the former PM was a client, meant that she had left herself open to prosecution. However, the case against her was allegedly discontinued between 1990 and 1995.

The woman, whose identity is known to the BBC, was later convicted of controlling prostitutes after a successful prosecution by Wiltshire Police. She was jailed for six years after a trial which included allegations that she had supplied children as young as 13 to her clients. It is unclear whether or not the force then went back to re-investigate the woman's original allegations against Sir Edward after she was convicted - and this is now part of a corruption inquiry by the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

The IPCC said on Monday that it would look at whether Wiltshire officers failed to pursue allegations of child abuse made against Sir Edward, who was prime minister from 1970 to 1974 and died in 2005 aged 89 at his home in Salisbury. A retired detective has alleged that claims were made in the 1990s but were not followed up. Wiltshire Police has declined to comment on the case, but has appealed for information regarding allegations against Sir Edward.

 

[danny la rouge]

Five forces now. Who knows how many by the morning.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

This video needs plastering over social media again and again and a fucking gain.

 

[brogdale]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-337949...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Hmmm...smelly

 

[elbows]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-337949...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Hmmm...smelly

Not necessarily smelly at all. She could, for example, be telling the truth and she never tried to use Heath as a shield. We'll see, not that I have any great faith that the IPCC will get to the bottom of it. But seeing as she was prosecuted eventually anyway, its never been the Heath story I'm most interested in.

 

[brogdale]

Not necessarily smelly at all. She could, for example, be telling the truth and she never tried to use Heath as a shield. We'll see, not that I have any great faith that the IPCC will get to the bottom of it. But seeing as she was prosecuted eventually anyway, its never been the Heath story I'm most interested in.

Of course she could be telling the truth; that would make the actions of Wiltshire etc even smellier.