How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[Wilf]

"Dear Dave, is Andy Coulson still you're most embarrassing ex-employee?"

 

[nino_savatte]

I've just heard that Patrick Rock has been allowed to walk free. He's been given a 2 year conditional discharge and will be on the sex offenders register for the same period of time. Anyone else would've been sent down. I've also heard that he was tipped off by 'Downing Street' two days before the bizzies swooped on him.

Patrick Rock, a former aide to David Cameron, has avoided jail after being found guilty of five counts of downloading indecent images of young children.

The 65-year-old has been given a two-year conditional discharge, meaning he will not be sentenced unless a further offence is committed within that period.
Former aide to David Cameron avoids jail over indecent child photos

The judge said:

"I have not lost sight of the obvious reality that right-thinking people will quite properly consider that those who did what you did should be punished for it.
"You should be. And you have been. The punishment for you is the loss of your reputation and your very public humiliation.

*shrugs* He won't be signing on and claiming Universal Credit any time soon. His supposed "loss of reputation" will be overlooked by the Tories, who will no doubt offer him another backroom job.

 

[kingfisher]

I've just heard that Patrick Rock has been allowed to walk free. He has a 2 year conditional discharge and will be on the sex offenders register for the same period of time. Anyone else would've been sent down. I've also heard that he was tipped off by 'Downing Street' two days before the bizzies swooped on him.
Patrick Rock, a former aide to David Cameron, has avoided jail after being found guilty of five counts of downloading indecent images of young children.

The 65-year-old has been given a two-year conditional discharge, meaning he will not be sentenced unless a further offence is committed within that period.
Former aide to David Cameron avoids jail over indecent child photos

think the eton boy had worse (higher category stuff) and there was lots of legal eagles at the time saying how it was within guidelines. is there a petition we can sign anywhere? not seen one yet

 

[two sheds]

You'd have thought that, with all the publicity and very public humiliation, Fred West would have been let off with a lighter sentence too.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

I've just heard that Patrick Rock has been allowed to walk free. He's been given a 2 year conditional discharge and will be on the sex offenders register for the same period of time. Anyone else would've been sent down.

Nah.

The relevant sentencing guideline is here: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...exual-Offences-Definitive-Guideline-web-1.pdf

Page 75 onwards addresses indecent images.

The images possessed by Rock fell into Category C as they did not show sexual activity and it was not suggested that he had distributed or produced the images.

The starting point in these circumstances is a high level community order, which usually means a lot of unpaid work. A conditional discharge is on the lenient side but he had no previous convictions and has been very publicly disgraced, which does not happen to the vast majority of offenders (mainly because local papers can't afford to send journalists to court) and is a worse punishment than any community order.

 

[DotCommunist]

t he was tipped off by 'Downing Street' two days before the bizzies swooped on him.

probably some burned twisted and melted terrabyte drives buried in his garden then

 

[Wilf]

probably some burned twisted and melted terrabyte drives buried in his garden then

Winston Wolfe is on a retainer for these guys.

 

[laptop]

Not, probably, a "ring" but here seems the best place to note this:
ITV investigation: Politician Sir Clement Freud accused of child sexual abuse

Clement Freud died on 2009.

All sorts of spooky connections... shared an office with Cyril Smith...

Sir Clement Freud exposed as a paedophile as police urged to probe Madeleine McCann links

 

[nino_savatte]

No further action to be taken against Kitty Cliff.
CPS ends Sir Cliff Richard sex abuse inquiry, with no further action to be taken - BBC News

 

[not-bono-ever]

hopefully that will put to bed any more scurrilous rumours about the barbadan citizen and friend of jimmy saville, sir cliff richard

 

[Pickman's model]

hopefully that will put to bed any more scurrilous rumours about the barbadan citizen and friend of jimmy saville, sir cliff richard

very droll

 

[brogdale]

If it had gone to court he could have been found innocent.

 

[Pickman's model]

hopefully that will put to bed any more scurrilous rumours about the barbadan citizen and friend of jimmy saville, sir cliff richard

yeh. i for one look forward to reading sir cliff richard's obituary

 

[Pickman's model]

If it had gone to court he could have been found innocent.

he could have been found guilty

 

[Pickman's model]

Not, probably, a "ring" but here seems the best place to note this:
ITV investigation: Politician Sir Clement Freud accused of child sexual abuse

Clement Freud died on 2009.

All sorts of spooky connections... shared an office with Cyril Smith...

Sir Clement Freud exposed as a paedophile as police urged to probe Madeleine McCann links

i see you've posted a ring piece

 

[brogdale]

he could have been found guilty

You know what I was getting at.

 

[laptop]

Probably a straight piece, it seemed at the time.

 

[Brainaddict]

Cliff's facebook statement, alas shared by a friend:

After almost two years under police investigation I learnt today that they have finally closed their enquiries. I have always maintained my innocence, co-operated fully with the investigation, and cannot understand why it has taken so long to get to this point! Nevertheless, I am obviously thrilled that the vile accusations and the resulting investigation have finally been brought to a close.

Ever since the highly-publicised and BBC filmed raid on my home I have chosen not to speak publicly. Even though I was under pressure to ‘speak out’, other than to state my innocence, which was easy for me to do as I have never molested anyone in my life, I chose to remain silent. This was despite the widely shared sense of injustice resulting from the high profile fumbling of my case from day one. Other than in exceptional cases, people who are facing allegations should never be named publicly until charged. I was named before I was even interviewed and for me that was like being hung out like ‘live bait’. It is obvious that such strategies simply increase the risk of attracting spurious claims which not only tie up police resources and waste public funds, but they forever tarnish the reputations of innocent people. There have been numerous occasions in recent years where this has occurred, and I feel very strongly that no innocent person should be treated in this way.

I know the truth and in some peoples’ eyes the CPS’ announcement today doesn’t go far enough because it doesn’t expressly state that I am innocent; which of course I am. There lies the problem. My reputation will not be fully vindicated because the CPS’ policy is to only say something general about there being ‘insufficient’ evidence. How can there be evidence for something that never took place! This is also a reason why people should never be named publicly until they have been charged unless there are exceptional circumstances.

To my fans and members of the public, to the press and media, all of whom continued to show me such encouraging and wonderful support, I would like to say “thank you” it would have been so much harder without you.

 

[kingfisher]

who was it told me this - -his vinyards watered with the blood of dead children...didnt believe ti at thetime

 

[elbows]

who was it told me this - -his vinyards watered with the blood of dead children...didnt believe ti at thetime

Its usually not a good idea to believe variations of pathetic blood libel shit.

 

[existentialist]

Its usually not a good idea to believe variations of pathetic blood libel shit.

It also makes the person posting it look like a fool.

 

[hot air baboon]

Staff ‘devastated’ as owners close investigative journalism website Exaro – Press Gazette

Exaro News has closed just days after being declared “open for business” by its freshly appointed joint-head of news.

Owners News Sparta took a snap decision to close the investigative news agency yesterday, Press Gazette understands.

A board meeting at midday resulted in the doors closing for the final time at 5pm in what head of Exaro News David Hencke has described as “like something from Goldman Sachs”.

 

[elbows]

Meanwhile when searching for 'Gove when he was younger' clips on youtube, I discovered one show compilation which had an excruciating interview between him and Rhodes Boyson. Rhodes is one of the dead tory MPs that has been accused of abuse and so came up briefly in this thread before.

The interview which Rhodes starts at the 1 hour 39 min 30 sec mark.

The 'uncomfortable' bit of the interview starts just before the 1 hours 45 minute mark. Its no smoking gun, its crap banter from Gove along the lines of smutty innuendo about tough discipline. But I still find it telling when studying attitudes, especially historical ones, around this front. And it wouldn't shock me if Gove made some of his comments from a position of insider knowledge, or at least insider rumours.

 

[phillm]

Meanwhile when searching for 'Gove when he was younger' clips on youtube, I discovered one show compilation which had an excruciating interview between him and Rhodes Boyson. Rhodes is one of the dead tory MPs that has been accused of abuse and so came up briefly in this thread before.

The interview which Rhodes starts at the 1 hour 39 min 30 sec mark.

The 'uncomfortable' bit of the interview starts just before the 1 hours 45 minute mark. Its no smoking gun, its crap banter from Gove along the lines of smutty innuendo about tough discipline. But I still find it telling when studying attitudes, especially historical ones, around this front. And it wouldn't shock me if Gove made some of his comments from a position of insider knowledge, or at least insider rumours.

and includes the now notorius Max Clifford just before that

 

[OneStrike]

Justice Goddard has resigned as head of the csa inquiry. Child sex abuse inquiry: Judge Lowell Goddard quits - BBC News It's almost like this thing is being stalled, what with all of these set backs.

 

[bluescreen]

Joshua Rozenberg has been critical. She may have felt out of her depth.
Janner: a misguided inquiry

E2A: There's more on his FB page 31 July where he's critical of her not knowing how to deal with evidence given in confidence.

 

[brogdale]

Justice Goddard has resigned as head of the csa inquiry. Child sex abuse inquiry: Judge Lowell Goddard quits - BBC News It's almost like this thing is being stalled, what with all of these set backs.

Particularly when some media are saying that key reason for her resignation = her inability to get her head around UK law. Good choice, then.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

This is from a few days ago - a scathing criticism of her inability to make a routine decision. The inquiry would have taken, well, forever, with Goddard in charge.

Some people aren't surprised. New Zealand lawyers informally ranked their High Court judges a few years ago and Goddard came in position 64 of 64. Presumably the other Commonwealth judges had the sense to say no before she was asked.

 

[brogdale]

 

[elbows]

This is from a few days ago - a scathing criticism of her inability to make a routine decision. The inquiry would have taken, well, forever, with Goddard in charge.

I just read that article and I find it impossible to characterise its criticism as being of her inability to make a routine decision at all.

Rather, it was being critical of things relating to her overstepping specific legal limits of inquiries. Mostly in relation to the idea that the inquiry would be a sort of trial of a deceased person, Janner.

I'm sure the article has a point or two but I didn't like the way it went at all. It seemed to go well beyond the call of duty to those particular legal points, on to familiar territory which we have seen from others in the media in the past. A cynicism towards and lack of care for victims tends to feature.

Leaving the articles excesses on that front to one side, I think a purely legal and dry analysis of what an inquiry is supposed to be for and the boundaries in which it operates does miss a point about inquiries and their function, one that is exceedingly relevant to this particular inquiry. Inquiries are a way for establishments to allow historical pressure/stench that has built up and been suppressed in the past, to be released to some extent in a controlled fashion. Attempts can then be made to 'draw a line under the thing', say lessons have been learnt, express some remorse and then move on. The extent to which this is pulled off varies widely and we se plenty of examples where the first few attempts at an inquiry end up with credibility well below the level necessary for people to actually think the truth has come out, wrongs have been exposed and a modicum of justice served. Child abuse inquiries are clearly prone to this phenomenon to its fullest extent, even fairly comprehensive ones from the past did not not release enough pressure historically, requiring this giant one to deal with all that was stirred up in the post-Savile environment.

Even if her interpretation of the law and the inquiries limits was faulty when it came to the Janner case, I think its pretty obvious why an establishment inquiry thought it needed to go there. A case where CPS decisions ran contrary to what the public would accept when Janner was still alive, forcing a u-turn that then lead nowhere due to Janners death. Its hardly surprising that in order to draw a line under any suspicions about politicians & child abuse at all, you need to pick specific examples and give it as public an airing as possible.

Beyond the Janner stuff, I don't know how crap she was at various other aspects of her role. One thing she did seem to manage better than her predecessors in the role was having some idea about emphasising what the process could do for victims, and many aspects that can be placed under the banner of 'truth and reconciliation'.

Returning to that article, I should probably read it again when I'm not so tired but I'll make the following criticism now anyway and retract it if it turns out I misinterpreted something. They are moaning on about Janner receiving a posthumous trial of sorts, but when they talk about what the inquiry should be focussing on they mention institutions and people like Savile who abused within them. But Savile was very dead before we were treated to the full gamut of revelations about him - so why is that so very different to exploring all possible facts around Janner?

Even as someone who does not have particularly wild ideas about the scale of historical child abuse by politicians, and spent at least as much time debunking stuff and trying to prevent dark ideas about the states worst shit from leaking too extensively into my view of all things as I did hunting for genuine signs of abuse and guilt or historical rumours that had real legs, I'm frequently disturbed by attitudes expressed across a range of media. A decent child abuse inquiry for this country would surely need a module on the media. But we already had Leveson and look how the media thwarted that one shamelessly. Honestly though anyone who pondered during the post-Savile frenzy the question 'how did this stuff get ignored and buried historically?' need only review the output of the press in the last year or two to find a few reasons that are alive and well today