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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

...possibility rather than liklihood...the possibility is obvisoulsy greater that they could have uncovered some actual child pornography as opposed to the gilt-edged VIP stuff...then retrospectively aggrandising it even sub-consciously and now believing it to be true at this remove..

....it strikes me as something you might not leave lying around your Belgravia mansion for the servants to find but I'm happy to admit I'm no expert on such topics...
 
....I'm not sure we can rule out other motives.....according to some testimony the photograhping of the abuse was done by the perps...presumably as memento's

Dave said: “There would be flash bulbs going off when someone was going round taking pictures. All this took place during the day, whatever day of the week they fancied.

“I can remember all the adults had posh accents. They used to say things like ‘He’s cute, he’s nice’.

....paedo's are notorious for hoarding vast amounts of the stuff ..e.g. if you saw Julian Levene in the BBC's Hunt for Britain's Paedophiles where he had removable skirting boards all around the house with hidey-holes etc.....
 
teqniq said:
How convenient.

Prosecutors 'missed' three chances to prosecute Lord Janner
Click to expand...

Certainly the full inquiry will have to go far, far beyond the comfort zone of 'missed opportunities' narratives if it is to even begin to cut through the well deserved cynicism.

The full report is rather interesting. I won't quote from it much, in part because the activities of Janner are discussed in detail, but this bit I just reached is too quotable to miss.

Complainant 1 was receiving clothes and sweets from Janner and indicated that on almost every occasion that he met Janner, sexual activity took place.

Beck indicated that he believed these disclosures and reported them to the Director of Social Services who replied “oh no, not again”.
Click to expand...
 
That report makes it quite clear that unlike the shit police investigation in 1991, the 2014 police Operation Enamel turned up loads more evidence (including a lot of corroboration of small facts e.g. hotel room arrangements) in relation to complainant 1 (the one that relates to the Beck trial). Given that the recent prosecution of Janner involved 9 victims in total, we might assume that there is lots of evidence from Operation Enamel to come besides these few snippets. I expect that this will happen via the public inquiry.
 
Hmmm, perhaps if I press my fingers into my eyeballs I can stop them rolling.

butchersapron said:
The suggestion is that they were being held in safety deposit boxes by others blackmailing the alleged abusers, not that the abusers had stashed them isn't it?
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Well no, the Mirror has no need to suggest anything at all. The idea of the compromising material held in a safe deposit box and what happens if it is found by criminals is a staple of crime fiction, along with the 'Mission Impossible' variant in which a 'caper' is launched to get hold of it, and the closely related plot in which 'honest geezer' bank robbers discover that they've accidentally stolen money belonging to the mob. Anyone who has consumed enough crime fiction - undoubtedly a majority of the population of this country - is perfectly capable of filling in the dots for themselves.

(Your version seems a little dull. Couldn't the deposit box have belonged to Mossad and the Tory politician in the photos' have been Margaret Thatcher ?)

hot air baboon said:
....if its concocted wouldn't they have come up with a "name" like Heath or Brittan though...
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Well off the top of my head : given that the only proof that this isn't a load of garbage - the photographs themselves - were conveniently 'left on the floor of the vault' perhaps the Mirror don't want to be bothered with a lot of tiresome complaints from friends and family of the 'Tory politician'. Or perhaps they recognise that if they named the politician it might tarnish their stance of 'public spiritedness' in wasting the time of the Goddard enquiry with this crap. Or, just perhaps, as tabloid journalists they understand the concept of the "blind item" - a staple of scandal sheets for over a century - and know that many of their readers love guessing who is being referred to even more than being told.

This ridiculous Brian Reader story is certainly part of the story of "high level" paedophile abuse but only in the same way that the Jack the Ripper Museum is "part of" the Jack the Ripper story. Aside from the question of any resources diverted to investigate it, It's only relation to the actual abuse that has taken place is as a demonstration (as if we really needed one) that we live in a society where there is literally nothing that cannot be turned into a commodity, and that there is no commodity too silly or too unpleasant that customers can't be found to consume it.
 
Lurdan said:
Hmmm, perhaps if I press my fingers into my eyeballs I can stop them rolling.


Well no, the Mirror has no need to suggest anything at all. The idea of the compromising material held in a safe deposit box and what happens if it is found by criminals is a staple of crime fiction, along with the 'Mission Impossible' variant in which a 'caper' is launched to get hold of it, and the closely related plot in which 'honest geezer' bank robbers discover that they've accidentally stolen money belonging to the mob. Anyone who has consumed enough crime fiction - undoubtedly a majority of the population of this country - is perfectly capable of filling in the dots for themselves.

(Your version seems a little dull. Couldn't the deposit box have belonged to Mossad and the Tory politician in the photos' have been Margaret Thatcher ?).
Click to expand...

You did get that this:

me said:
Also seems at times like every single safe and deposit box in the 60s and 70s that was successfully broken into and the culprits later nicked at some point for something or other was stuffed full of pics of VIPs involved in child abuse.
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was sarcasm right?
 
elbows said:
Unless I missed it this thread mostly skipped the flurry of Janner victims stories/media investigations which the likes of the BBC published as soon as the legal trial process was formally ended. Here are some:

Lord Janner 'abused 12 at children's homes' - BBC News
Lord Janner 'made me feel dirty and unloved' - BBC News
Lord Janner: 'He took my innocence' - BBC News
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Cheers - there was a long item about Janner on the East Midlands version of Inside Out on Monday. Here on the BBC iplayer for the next four weeks.

The Goddard Inquiry has published a document setting out the scope of the inquiry into Janner.

Investigation into allegations of child sexual abuse involving Lord Greville Janner | IICSA Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Allegations of child sexual abuse linked to Lord Greville Janner

An inquiry into allegations of child sexual abuse involving Lord Janner and the institutional response to the allegations

Scope of investigation

1. The Inquiry will investigate allegations of child sexual abuse involving Lord Janner.

2. To the extent that the Inquiry finds some or all of the allegations to be wellfounded, it will consider:

2.1. the adequacy and propriety of law enforcement investigations and prosecutorial decisions relating to allegations falling within paragraph 1 above, including whether any public authority hindered or prevented the effective investigation and/or prosecution of allegations of child sexual abuse by Lord Janner;

2.2. the extent to which Leicestershire County Council was aware of the allegations of abuse and the adequacy of its response;

2.3. the extent to which the Labour Party, government departments, and/or the security and intelligence agencies were aware of the allegations of abuse and, if so, the adequacy of their response;

2.4. the extent to which any other public or private institution may have failed in its duty to protect children from sexual abuse;

2.5. whether the Kirkwood inquiry was conducted adequately and whether the omission of any mention of Lord Janner in the Kirkwood report was appropriate.

3. In light of the investigations set out above, the Inquiry will publish a report setting out its findings and recommendations to improve child protection and safeguarding in England and Wales.

They have also announced that there will be a preliminary hearing in relation to this investigation on 9th March. The Times have described this as a 'public evidence session' but it's not clear from the Inquiry page that this is the case.
 
Another day another Met statement about Lord Bramall. This one is from Assistant Commissioner Specialist Crime and Operations Patricia Gallan responding to the calls for an apology. She declines to do so but in saying :
In conclusion, I have offered to meet Lord Bramall at the conclusion of Operation Midland to explain the nature of our investigation and why we have acted in the way we have. I do want to hear his views and understand whether we might have conducted ourselves differently in any of our engagements with him and his legal representatives.
Click to expand...
she makes things as clear as the Met intend to. It hasn't impressed Bramall's establishment chums who are reading one sentence as implying that he put his own name into the public domain.

Amusingly Assistant Commissioner Gallan writes :
The Inquiry has already made clear that it will be investigating cases where there are allegations of child sexual abuse and exploitation involving people of public prominence associated with Westminster. This may include Operation Midland.
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Any notion that Operation Midland will not have a starring role in the Westminster strand of the Goddard inquiry would be wishful thinking verging on the delusional. Hence of course the slow pace. The Met clearly take the view that since they are going to get a kicking anyway it would be better that it was for being over-diligent than risk handing their critics any further ammunition by leaving any stones unturned.
 
'Dirty' Doug Richard has been acquitted. Excuse me, but fucking a 13 year old girl qualifies as statutory rape. No?
Doug Richard, the former Dragon’s Den star and one-time business adviser to David Cameron, paid a 13-year-old girl for sex after meeting her on a “sugar daddy” website, a court has heard.

The 57-year-old American-born entrepreneur and millionaire allegedly arranged for two teenage schoolgirls to travel from their homes in Norwich to London, where he spanked and had sex with the younger one.

Mr Richard, who appeared in the first two series of the popular BBC show, has a long association with the Prime Minister having penned a report into the state of small business when the Tories were in opposition.

He also accompanied Mr Cameron on a trade mission to Southern Africa in 2011.

Doug Richard: Ex-Dragons' Den star paid girl, 13, for sex after meeting her on 'sugar daddy' website, court hears
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I reckon Patrick Rock will probably be acquitted too, and will insist that he was "under a great amount of stress" or he was "depressed" or some such bullshit.
 
from Friday's Sun

Sun1602x_zpsevvvxuxm.jpg

Sun1602xx_zps6eaxt16e.jpg
 
Operation Midland has not found enough evidence to charge any suspects

Vikram Dodd Police and crime correspondent
Sunday 14 February 2016 17.14 GMT

Operation Midland detectives investigating claims of sexual abuse by prominent establishment figures believe their main witness is still credible, but have not uncovered evidence to support criminal charges against any suspects.

The Guardian understands that the Scotland Yard investigation has found evidence pointing to the credibility of aspects of the account given by “Nick”, who has been the subject of attacks on his reputation.

The current standing of the £2m investigation is as follows, the Guardian can reveal:

  • No specific dates of alleged attacks have been established, nor has any direct evidence of murder been uncovered, or specific links to homicide victims.
  • In one instance Nick correctly described the interior of a military premises in southern England, where he claimed abuse had taken place. The details he provided were not publicly available, and the premises itself is not open to the public, making it likely he had been there at some stage, police concluded.
  • Detectives have not been able to disprove Nick’s credibility, nor establish that his central claims could not have happened.
  • An informal review, conducted six months into the investigation by a senior officer with no previous connection to the team, concluded there was sufficient substance to continue the homicide and sexual abuse inquiries.
  • Most of the detectives drawn from the Met’s sexual abuse and homicide divisions believe Nick is credible.
  • The investigation has so far not uncovered enough evidence against a living person to reach the standard of reasonable suspicion necessary to make an arrest.

The extent of the progress in the controversial investigation will fail to satisfy critics who believe detectives have fallen for a fantasist. But for others, the indirect support found for some of Nick’s account may explain why detectives have continued with the investigation for almost 15 months.
 
IMO the most significant passage in that Guardian piece is
One of the tasks for the team of detectives is to ensure their inquiry can withstand scrutiny from the Goddard inquiry, set up by the government to look into the scale of sexual abuse in Britain and claims of cover-ups.
Click to expand...
Given that criticisms of Operation Midland are supplying the fuel which has turned #hogan-howegate up to eleven it's scarcely likely that any of the more junior Met officers involved with the investigation are going to risk career blight by using any other word than "credible" about Nick.
 
Police recruit more investigators for Edward Heath inquiry

Jamie Grierson

Friday 19 February 2016 12.41 GMT

Detectives investigating allegations of sexual abuse against the late former prime minister Sir Edward Heath are recruiting additional investigators in a sign that the criticised inquiry remains active.

Wiltshire police, which is supervising all investigations launched across the country into sexual abuse allegations against Heath, last month advertised for a number of staff investigators to assist the inquiry for at least 12 months, possibly up to two years.

The recruitment drive was reportedly launched to support plans to examine the Heath archive at the Bodleian Libraries, which is made up of about 4,500 boxes of material.

Detectives are understood to believe they might be able to corroborate witness accounts and Heath’s movements by examining his private papers in the Bodleian’s warehouse near Swindon, the Times reported.
 
elbows said:
Detective who wanted to speak to minister was taken off case - BBC News
Click to expand...

Another long and very interesting background piece about abuse in Lambeth on the BBC site :
The council that employed an abuser to look after children - BBC

The Boateng aspect of this was the lead item on last night's Newsnight currently on the BBC iplayer at this link.
01/03/2016, Newsnight - BBC Two

Mentioned on Newsnight but not in either of the website pieces is that Boateng is alleged to have rung Southwark Council during the row between Southwark and Lambeth over whether Michael John Carroll, the convicted paedophile who was at the time managing one of Lambeth's children's homes, should be allowed to foster children. (Southwark had learned Carroll had a conviction for child abuse back in the 60s and that Lambeth were aware of this). Boateng, or someone claiming to be him, had contacted Southwark to ask if he could be of assistance in resolving the row, an offer which was not taken up.

Not mentioned in any of these BBC stories is Boateng's wife Janet who was of course a Lambeth Councillor and Chair of it's Social Services Committee.

Newsnight state there is no reason to believe Boateng had done anything wrong but ask why the detective looking at Carroll's activities was removed from the case after having announced an intention to question Boateng, who was by then a Minister of State at the Home Office in charge of the Police. And why Operation Middleton, the more wide ranging operation looking at all Lambeth Children's Homes which was then set up, also did not follow up this line of inquiry.

Many of the elements of this have been mentioned before on this thread - for example back in 2014 when the Mirror ran stories about an unnamed Labour politician and Lambeth has it's own thread of course.

It goes without saying that there is no suggestion that Boateng is currently the subject of any criminal investigation and that Urban's very sensible rules about not stating or implying that living individuals have committed serious criminal offenses very obviously apply in the case of living individuals who are also rich lawyers.

Lambeth is of course one of the strands of the Goddard Inquiry (the scope of the investigation into it is set out in this pdf file).

The Preliminary Hearing on allegations of child sexual abuse involving children in the care of Lambeth Council will take place on the morning of Thursday 24 March, in Court 73 of the Royal Courts of Justice.
(...)
Preliminary Hearings are open to the press and public, but none of them will be broadcast.
Click to expand...

From the note published on the Inquiry website it looks as if much of this initial hearing will be taken up with procedural matters.
 
Something I don't understand about all the people/police, etc who tried to report allegations of abuse is why they didn't then go on to make anonymous allegations via organisations such as NSPCC, (although these too have been found wanting). The IRA used to issue warnings to organisations like the Samaritans at a time when the police didn't always act on warnings (dirty tricks), as way of ensuring the warnings did go through. I do appreciate that reporting things can be really scary, and people might worry that they will, somehow, be identified or traced. But I can't believe the sheer scale of people who seemed to have given up once they'd been told to shut up. It's tragic, when you think of what might have been prevented from happening.
 
The Goddard Inquiry held a preliminary hearing yesterday in relation to it's investigation into Janner. A full transcript available here on its website in pdf form.

Mostly concerned with procedural issues but Ben Emmerson the Senior Counsel to the Inquiry gave an opening presentation which touched on general issues relevant to the Inquiry as a whole, and a brief outline of why Janner had been selected as one of the 13 specific investigations announced so far.

To date more than 30 people have alleged that they were sexually assaulted by Janner as children.
The allegations in summary are that Greville Janner exploited children and perpetrated a full range of sexual offences against them, including what would now be termed in English law as "rape".

The offending was alleged to have taken place at children's homes, hotels and at the Janner family home. The earliest offence allegedly occurred in 1955 and the latest in time is alleged to have occurred in 1984. In relation to a number of the complainants it is alleged that Janner abused his position as an MP by arranging for children in whom he had a sexual interest to be brought to the Houses of Parliament.
Click to expand...

Public hearings for the Janner investigation are expected to begin in September and to take up eight weeks over a six month period.

The preliminary hearings into the investigations into Cambridge House, Knowl View and Rochdale and into the Anglican Church are set for next Wednesday 16th. The preliminary hearing into the investigation into Children in the Care of Lambeth Council is the following Thursday 24th.
 
That transcript is really quite quotable, I shall have to restrain myself from quoting too much of it. I've read quite a lot of Janner stuff before and I've lost track of which facts and details are well known, so apologies if the following already raised eyebrows in the past, I don't remember it:

At the conclusion of the Beck trial, the then Secretary of State for Health, William Waldegrave, announced the Kirkwood Inquiry into the abuse of children in Leicestershire children's homes. Greville Janner gave evidence to the Kirkwood Inquiry, but for reasons which are so far unexplained, he was permitted to do so in private. The report which was published in 1992 recorded that Janner had been a witness and published his written evidence. It did not, however, contain any reference to the testimony that he gave in private.
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(from page 14)
 
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