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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

Curious:

MPS Statement - Operation Midland

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This page was last updated on 14-Nov-2014 12:17

Over the past month, detectives working on Operation Fairbank within the Met's Specialist Crime and Operations Unit have been made aware of allegations concerning serious non-recent sexual abuse, said to have occurred over 30 years ago.

Our inquiries into this, over subsequent weeks, have revealed further information regarding possible homicide. Based on our current knowledge, this is the first time that this specific information has been passed to the Met.

At this early stage in this inquiry, with much work still to do, it is not appropriate to issue appeals or reveal more information.

Detectives from the Child Abuse Investigation Command are working closely with colleagues from the Homicide and Major Crime Command concerning this information, which is being looked at under the name of Operation Midland.

We will not be giving a commentary as this inquiry develops, and it is important that officers are allowed to pursue their work without interference.

We will not comment upon speculation as to the identity of any person or locations that may or may not feature in this inquiry.

We have taken the decision to release this statement today following a number of media enquiries requesting an update on Operation Midland. ​
 
hot air baboon said:
In 1990 German Carole Kasir, who ran the guest house at the time of the allegations, was found dead in her flat at the age of 47.

The coroner's inquest concluded that, a diabetic, she had suffered an insulin overdose and had committed suicide.

However, there were claims that she had been murdered to stop her talking about what she knew.

The Yard said : “At this early stage in this inquiry, with much work still to do, it is not appropriate to issue appeals or reveal more information.

“Detectives from the Child Abuse Investigation Command are working closely with colleagues from the Homicide and Major Crime Command concerning this information, which is being looked at under the name of Operation Midland.”

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...-to-vip-paedophile-abuse-network-9861344.html
Click to expand...

The Standard run the risk of potentially confusing people and conflating info by mixing old copy about about Elm Guesthouse (Operation Fernbridge) stuff with this latest stuff regarding murder accusations that originally came up under Operation Fairbank (broad scoping exercise) that has recently spun off into Operation Midland (specific stuff related to Dolphin Square abuse). There really isn't enough detail at the moment but a couple of things about the way this murder stuff is being reported makes me think that the Carole Kasir suicide is certainly not the most likely candidate, we are talking about another set of abuse here, and any links between the two haven't been established even in rumourville.
 
hot air baboon said:
**** here's hoping they're not lining up another Steve Messham / McAlpine scenario ****
Click to expand...

It's almost impossible for that scenario to happen again. Very unlikely that the media would make that mistake again. And the Messham stuff appears to have had its origins in sloppy or dodgy journalistic behaviour some decades before the final BBC McAlpine storm (see much earlier discussions in this thread relating to Messham and photos). Plus every victim is different, and none that have gone public since Messham have had quite the same modus operandi or history as Messham.

Plus the Messham storm kicked off before we were really into 'serious police investigations mode', the impact of which on the media is hard to overstate.
 
Plus the entire concern that the Messham/McAlpine stuff would be used to prevent justice from occurring has a flaw. In that its only really valid if we think there will be no serious police investigations, and that trial by media is the only option left, and the Messham stuff made that impossible. But we aren't actually at that stage at all, still way too early to conclude the police investigations have been a dud. And if at some point that did become the case, I don't think the BBC McAlpine stuff actually precludes responsible journalists from digging deeper and keeping stories and quests for justice alive if they smell a rat/modern coverup.

As for whether the Messham stuff put off victims from coming forwards, it didn't feature anything that should directly make people less comfortable talking to the police. It did feature stuff that might make people more wary of journalists (not necessarily a bad thing) or of naming names in public themselves, especially without corroborative evidence. Granted the overall feeling of a victim being under pressure wouldn't have helped, but thankfully we've seen multiple victims of multiple celebrities find some justice via the courts in recent years since then, which should undo damage on that front, and certainly changed the 'tune' of how this stuff featured in the media.
 
brogdale said:
R5 playing the BBC "Nick" interview again now; very moving and a very brave man.

BBC journo said they had list of those identified by "Nick", but for obvious reasons they were not going to reveal, but they did say that the list included individuals who were "senior military and political figures' and some others that "Nick" described as "more important than that."

Hmmm
Click to expand...
Apart from what (I thought) I heard on R5, I can't find any reference to this bit by Tom Symonds. Anyone?
 
Just been reading various other blogs and news stories to catch up with anything else thats been going on recently. One blog post alerted me that I should have kept reading the Wanless report documents, because if I'd made it as far as annex D I would have seen this handy list of additional search terms that were used when searching for documents in archives.

Peter Wanless/Richard Whittam QC Review

List of additional names/places for searches

Cyril Smith
Leon Brittan
Greville Janner
(Sir) Peter Morrison
(Sir) Peter Hayman
David Atkinson
George Thomas
Sir Nicholas Fairbairn
Peter Righton
Michael Hanson
Warren Middleton
Steven Adrian Smith
Tom O'Carroll
Charles Napier aka Roger Nash (according to blog, they messed up this alias by associating it with the wrong person)
Peter Bremner
David Joy
Charles Oxley

Elm Guest House
Dolphin Square
Knowl View School
Kincora
Click to expand...

Nothing that hasn't come up here before really but useful to have it in such concise form.

( https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/372921/Annex_D_-_What_we_asked.pdf )
 
...OK, a clumsy analogy perhaps, but in the broader sense the credibility of the witnesses identifications is the main line of attack for anyone needing to get in the way of this story…

the 2 quotes raise the issue of his recall of people after suffering the trauma of his experience and after the passage of time involved….also whether a child abuser announcing themselves as “Lord X” or “Sir Buffton Tuffton” was laying a false trail at the time….

….also he is clearly very scared of being got at …

from the Exaro piece

"...Nick agreed despite remaining fearful of his alleged abusers..."

"..Nick sought assurances that his identity would be tightly contained within the Met..."

..people who come out and say highly embarrassing stuff can end up saying & doing apparently quite strange and compromising things …( ….David Shayler anyone… )

…..he does actully mention Elm Guest House in that piece aswell…
 
....you were right Elbows...no link at all to that old case it appears... ( ...I was even starting to wonder about the Jill Dando case last night as sleep encroached....! )


Westminster child abuse gang 'linked to boy’s murder'

PAUL GALLAGHER Author Biography , NIGEL MORRIS Friday 14 November 2014

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...abuse-gang-linked-to-boys-murder-9862454.html

Detectives investigating allegations of an organised paedophile ring involving former government ministers and senior police officers are examining links to a possible murder, Scotland Yard confirmed today.

The Met said detectives from its Operation Fairbank historic child abuse investigation command were now working with homicide officers in a new investigation called Operation Midland.

The Independent understands the victim is a boy and the person alleged to be responsible for his death in the 1980s is not a politician.



Did VIP abusers murder a boy?

By REBECCA CAMBER and STEPHEN WRIGHT FOR THE DAILY MAIL
PUBLISHED: 13:36, 14 November 2014

Police probing an alleged VIP paedophile ring are examining its links to a number of suspected murders.

Scotland Yard announced yesterday it is investigating a 'possible homicide' more than 30 years ago centring on a block of luxury flats long popular with MPs.

The explosive allegation could even extend to a series of murders related to child sex abuse 'parties' involving senior politicians, spy chiefs and prominent military and legal figures.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dence-possible-murder-linked-allegations.html
 
Last edited:
...Nick claims the first death was of a boy aged ten or 11 who was deliberately run down by a car.

Another chilling allegation is that he was in the same room in the 1980s when a 12-year-old boy was strangled by a Tory MP.

Nick said: “I watched while that happened. I am not sure how I got out of that. Whether I will ever know why I survived, I am not sure.”

Eighteen months later, he claims a third boy was killed by two unknown men in front of another MP...
Click to expand...
 
....struggling to get my head round all this....my initial thoughts run to that whole Lord Boothby-Ronnie Kray nexus of boys-for-favours involving organised crime elements in bed with politicians - whether this was an established and on-going pattern of behaviour involving multiple participants rather than a single bad-apple or he started it and it developed from that …

….arranging for accidents, getting rid of bodies etc etc lifts it into a whole new level to an extent…..if so who got the franchise after the twins were put away..?

also interested in what sort of connections “Nick’s” father had to bring that about his recruitment
 
hot air baboon said:
....struggling to get my head round all this....my initial thoughts run to that whole Lord Boothby-Ronnie Kray nexus of boys-for-favours involving organised crime elements in bed with politicians - whether this was an established and on-going pattern of behaviour involving multiple participants rather than a single bad-apple or he started it and it developed from that …

….arranging for accidents, getting rid of bodies etc etc lifts it into a whole new level to an extent…..if so who got the franchise after the twins were put away..?

also interested in what sort of connections “Nick’s” father had to bring that about his recruitment
Click to expand...

Here's one for the link-makers at the less rigorous end of the market, letter from boothby to Ronnie Kray:

"Thank you for your postcard. I very nearly went to Jersey myself, as I have never been there, and hear from so many people that it is quite delightful.

"If you are free tomorrow evening between six and seven, do come round for a drink and a chat."
Click to expand...

Haut de la Garenne was being used as a childrens home at this point.
 
If his allegations are true - and it seems that the police are taking him seriously - then you can understand the reluctance of any other witnesses to come forward.
 
Can't really see that we will ever learn the truth of it, though. Which part of the establishment isn't infected with corruption? Not denying that there are many good and decent people doing their jobs conscientiously. Most of them, in fact. But there are others, aren't there?
 
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