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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

DJ Squelch said:
RE: The fatal Fire in Brighton - I was watching an interesting Youtube documentary on this last night.
The Johns brothers (Adrian & Lee) both claimed they were abused in Bryn Alyn Community children's home and one of their testimonies (Lee, who had then changed his surname to Homberg) later convicted John Allen (head of Bryn Alyn). Some slight suggestion they might have been bribed by him or were blackmailing him. INot sure I believe the conspiracy theories about the fire though, a lot of the stuff about Hoogstraten was about failing to install fire escapes


more info - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jul/28/tonythompson.theobserver
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I certainly find aspects of this more compelling than some of the other stuff thats been floating around. Thanks for posting it.
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tom-watson-mp-a-top-minister-1417353

A top minister in Margaret Thatcher’s government has become the latest senior Tory to be accused of child abuse.

Labour MP Tom Watson has revealed he has been contacted with accusations about “a former Cabinet minister who regularly abused boys”.

Mr Watson refused to disclose the identity of the alleged paedophile who is believed to be a Tory who served in Lady Thatcher’s front bench team.

The bombshell claim means there are now allegations that four senior Conservatives, including at least two who were close to the former Prime Minister, were child abusers.

It was revealed as David Cameron faced mounting pressure to hold a new inquiry into the abuse scandal at children’s homes in North Wales in the 1970s and 80s.
The Children’s Commissioner for Wales, Keith Towler, said yesterday that unless a fresh investigation is carried out there will always be allegations of a whitewash.
He added: “Unless you do that, this level of suspicion will always be around – that there is a cover-up, that there is a containment exercise, that we have to protect somebody.”

He was backed by ex-Tory Defence Secretary Michael Portillo who said the PM was demanding “absolute transparency” from the BBC over the Jimmy Savile abuse scandal.
Mr Portillo said: “David Cameron will have to adopt a similar position.
“He will have to say he wishes toget to the root of whatever may have happened – not institutionally with the Conservative Party but whatever it was that may have happened.”
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The latest allegations revealed by Mr Watson at the weekend are not related to the North Wales horrors.
Nor are they connected to his claim that cops overlooked evidence linking a No.10 insider to child porn smuggler Peter Righton’s paedophile ring.
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elbows said:
I dont think he said that. From what I can tell the article does not say that the Jillings report said there was no ring and just a few evil men, it was the police investigation that said that.
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My reading is that he says that the Jillings report reignited all the controversy and whispers that the police had legitimately put to bed in their early 90s investigation and that despite being predisposed to belief in a paedo ring they could only come up with same conclusions as the police investigation - that there had been abuse but that it was limited to a couple of now convicted people.

The difference was, and what ignited the thing again, was a) the decision not to publish then gave the impression of a high-level cover up and b) that the Jillings report contained the claims and names (proven or not) rather than just the proven claims and names of the police investigation. And this combined to force Hague's hand and order the Waterhouse Inquiry.
 
I agree with what you said he said, except the bit about Jillings coming to the same conclusion as the police investigation. I dont see where he claimed this at all. He passes over Jillings quite quickly because I dont think it had many redeeming qualities in his eyes.
 
elbows said:
Seems I was right with my hypothesis that the tweet about newsnight that caused people to expect a name was not supposed to imply that at all:

http://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...tical-figure-in-our-investigation-is-unnamed/

Crick getting the wrong end of the stick is at least partially responsible for this.

So, no more barking about D-notices and super injunctions for now eh.
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A lot of people still think that it was a crick investigation as well since they didn't see the original tweet - but also, if you go back to the original Crick tweets, i'm pretty sure that he also never openly said that person would be named. He simply said that the person told him they had not been contacted over the newsnight investigation.
 
So how did Crick know then.

Or is this person a well enough known (alleged) paedo in political circles that all the political journo's know the stories anyway.
 
butchersapron said:
A lot of people still think that it was a crick investigation as well since they didn't see the original tweet - but also, if you go back to the original Crick tweets, i'm pretty sure that he also never openly said that person would be named. He simply said that the person told him they had not been contacted over the newsnight investigation.
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I'll check, wont be surprised if you are right, but the line he took implied it more strongly than the original tweet.

Meanwhile:


steven messham ‏@smessham
The welsh sec has agreed to meet with me PM"s office have been intouch he is away for 7 days hope to meet him when he is back wish me luck.
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steven messham ‏@smessham
I should have said the first minister for wales has agreed to meet not the welsh sec.
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Dan U said:
So how did Crick know then.

Or is this person a well enough known (alleged) paedo in political circles that all the political journo's know the stories anyway.
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That's what it sounds like - or he obviously still has contacts on newsnight after being the big man there for so many years.
 
Dan U said:
So how did Crick know then.

Or is this person a well enough known (alleged) paedo in political circles that all the political journo's know the stories anyway.
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Not just political journo's, anyone who read Scallywag back in the day or looked at certain websites over the years.
 
Also note that Crick was at an event with Overton the night before the tweets.

‏@MichaelLCrick
Had great fun at Oxford Union, speaking w Stephen Dorrell, Michelle Stanistreet + Iain Overton v Roy Greenslade, Brain Cathcart + Mark Lewis
 
butchersapron said:
Does his ghost haunt twitter then?
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Messham didnt know Webster was dead, someone had to tell him on twitter.

As for feeling like you may have had your strings pulled, that the problem with the entire subject isnt it really, long before this latest saga. The murky depths where reasonable certainty is hard to come by, and few sources of unblemished integrity are available. 'No smoke without fire' is an unsafe concept, and there are multiple potential murk multipliers at work here. The fact that some tories came out with stuff about Peter Morrison is enough for me not to run screaming from the entire subject though, but I do advise extreme caution and those looking for certainty should probably take a break at this stage.
 
elbows said:
Messham didnt know Webster was dead, someone had to tell him on twitter.

As for feeling like you may have had your strings pulled, that the problem with the entire subject isnt it really, long before this latest saga. The murky depths where reasonable certainty is hard to come by, and few sources of unblemished integrity are available. 'No smoke without fire' is an unsafe concept, and there are multiple potential murk multipliers at work here. The fact that some tories came out with stuff about Peter Morrison is enough for me not to run screaming from the entire subject though, but I do advise extreme caution and those looking for certainty should probably take a break at this stage.
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Excellent general advice, i was talking specifically of this Crick meets Overton the night before Overton tweets something rather explosive which is shortly followed up by the vastly more followed Crick tweeting something else about it - and it concerning a program that Crick was political editor on and that Overton's investigation appeared on. All very cosy that.
 
butchersapron said:
Excellent general advice, i was talking specifically of this Crick meets Overton the night before Overton tweets something rather explosive which is shortly followed up by the vastly more followed Crick tweeting something else about it - and it concerning a program that Crick was political editor on and that Overton's investigation appeared on. All very cosy that.
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Ah right. I wish I had said more about this aspect at the time, I sort of noticed it but instantly got distracted by the shitstorm on twitter it evoked, plus Guido Fawkes blog was probably responsible for a fair proportion of the attention it got to start with. Oh well, regardless of the 'BBC trying to save its own neck' and Panorama vs Newsnight rivalries, I expect there are quite a lot of journo's out there who would like this story to explode and recognise the power of twitter to make mischief.
 
I imagine that it was the inclusion of GuidoFawkes that gave it the "get this out there, fast" appearance that it had.
 
Cameron had to react:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/nov/05/tory-child-sex-ring-claim

David Cameron has asked government departments to report to Number 10 urgently over allegations of a child sex ring involving former Conservative politicians three decades ago.
It is understood the cabinet secretary Sir Jeremy Heywood is co-ordinating the inquiries involving the Welsh Office and the Home Office, as well as government records.
The move follows a call from the children's commissioner for Wales for a new inquiry into abuse at north Wales care homes in the 1970s and 80s and claims that a senior Tory was involved in a paedophile ring.
The prime minister's spokesman said: "We are clear that these allegations need to be properly investigated and we need to get to the bottom of what precisely happened.
The spokesman added that the prime minister is taking a close interest in the allegations being made. It is likely that the quick internal inquiry will decide if something more formal and substantial needs to be launched, or whether such an inquiry would run across police investigations.
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Minnie_the_Minx said:
Steve Messham's getting slated by someone else on Twitter
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Indeed, and they posted this link -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/1915901.stm

7 April, 2002
Charity worker charged with theft
charity worker from north Wales has been charged with theft, deception and false accounting.
Steve Messham, from Wrexham, was arrested and questioned after thousands of pounds allegedly went missing from a sex abuse victim support group.
...
Mr Messham, the group's chairman, was arrested and questioned over the alleged theft of the organisation's assets.
The 39-year-old now faces five charges - two of theft, two of deception and one of false accounting.
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Was he convicted? Another possible dent in Messham's credibilty as a witness.
 
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