How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[free spirit]

North Wales Police/Gwynedd Constabulary.

ta.

fwiw, I think I'd be remembering it right in saying that all this took place in a masonic lodge as well.

It may not be directly related, but goes to illustrate the sort of things that were still going on in a neighbouring force not that many years ago.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That seems to be the conspiraloon lot conflating two issues.

Yep, there have been consistent attempts to place Hamilton inside a paedophile ring made up of local and regional dignitaries, consistent attempts to construct a case for Hamilton having been able to do his "boy's clubs" untroubled by the police due to him being a Freemason (he wasn't, as far as can be ascertained) or "associated with powerful Masons" (he knew a few lodge masters, the lowest rung on the power ladder of regional Masonry). 15 years, and the Icke-ites and other members of the wibblehead tendency haven't been able to stand any of that stuff up, even though they've supposedly accessed private records.
Of course, the fact that the private records they've accessed don't contain evidence for their loonspud theories doesn't mean that they were wrong! Oh no, it means that the evil masons must have hidden the evidence and deliberately tried to mislead the courageous spongeheads into believing they were wrong!

 

[free spirit]

North Wales Police/Gwynedd Constabulary.

I just thought I'd better remove the name of the force involved, seeing as I've not had permission to make that public, and AFAIK she's moved on from that life now and may well not welcome having to go to court in order to stop me / urban getting sued for libeling a police force.

It's a proper minefield all this.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The secret state is not concerned about the welfare of children, remember Kincora ? Kids in homes are of no value.

Savile was an open secret.

Pal, the overt state isn't concerned about the welfare of children, let alone the secret state.

 

[free spirit]

Where people have unlimited power over children, there will always be abuse. Abusers are attracted to such situations. I was at an industrial school, I was the victim of much sadism and abuse. I still have the scars on my back where staff got older kids to beat me on my back with a belt while they jerked off and worse. It left me numb inside for many years, I had panic attacks, I could not deal with crowds, intimacy or trust anyone. Many turned to drink to help them get through their adult lives after a childhood that left them broken and then being cast out into the world with nothing.

I don't quite know what to say to this that won't sound completely trite, but I'm sorry you had to endure that as a kid.

Did any of the staff involved ever get done for what they got up to? I'm assuming not.

 

[elbows]

Also this stuff's been going on for decades, and either simon regan was completely off his rocker, or there was something that made him pursue this until his death despite the fact that it had bankrupted him.

It can be a bit of both. The question is whether any personal issues they have are simply making them willing to take risks other journalists wont, or whether it also affects their judgement when forming a picture of the truth. There is also a question about whether such people are used by others once their willingness to touch untouchable stories is well established.

 

[free spirit]

It can be a bit of both. The question is whether any personal issues they have are simply making them willing to take risks other journalists wont, or whether it also affects their judgement when forming a picture of the truth. There is also a question about whether such people are used by others once their willingness to touch untouchable stories is well established.

In his case it also looks like he was deliberately screwed at least once to divert attention from the real story

 

[Corax]

One of the victims from Bryn Estyn I believe. A disproportionate number of the others have died as well, sometimes in unusual circumstances.

Further to this, I think all five of the abuse victims that died in that fire were from Bryn Estyn. Not 100% though, as the wording of what I've read's slightly ambiguous.

 

[caoineadh7]

c grade UK celebs being hunted down could be a distraction from the real or much bigger story.

 

[elbows]

c grade UK celebs being hunted down could be a distraction from the real or much bigger story.

I know what you mean, but we do need to remember that when it comes to victims there is no A, B or C list.

All the same some were suspicious that the sun were up to this yesterday.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

If Tom's into you know two things, it goes right to the highest parts of UK society, the story ain't going away.

 

[DJ Squelch]

Further to this, I think all five of the abuse victims that died in that fire were from Bryn Estyn. Not 100% though, as the wording of what I've read's slightly ambiguous.

Bryn Alyn rather than Bryn Esyn for one of the victims, another one who suvived the fire died of a drug overdose later. Watch the YouTube clip I posted last page. Also some info here - http://newsconfidential.com/FS/FS_Story.php?RequestID=32920

 

[1927]

c grade UK celebs being hunted down could be a distraction from the real or much bigger story.

Exactly, so far we have had the arrest of Glitter and Starr, the two names that were already in the public domain. They are being thrown to the lions for consumption while the shredders are busy the length of Whitehall.

 

[1927]

When they throw us an MP or cabinet minister we will know that the police that streted to take this seriously.
Thing is, of this goes to the top, involves MI5 and their like turning a blind eye, then it is more than likely that we will never hear the truth even of there was a concerted attempt to discover it, which I doubt.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Chris Bryant ‏@ChrisBryantMP
Cameron won't be doing PMQs for three weeks - how convenient!

 

[kenny g]

Precisely, I expect we will never find out the full story of the going ons in glencoe.

 

[elbows]

Chris Bryants tweet is probably in relations to Leveson, phone hacking etc.

 

[Treacle Toes]

tom_watson ‏@tom_watson
Words I never thought I'd say: Thank you Daily Star Sunday. Really appreciate you being so strong on this. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/starsays/view/

 

[Treacle Toes]

Chris Bryants tweet is probably in relations to Leveson, phone hacking etc.

There is a lot going on at the moment, yes.

 

[elbows]

The children's commissioner for Wales has said a new inquiry should be held into allegations that a senior Tory was involved in a paedophile ring three decades ago in order to avoid suggestions of a cover-up.
Keith Towler's intervention came after a victim of the north Wales care home scandal in the 1970s said he and others had been "swept under the carpet" despite a three-year inquiry in the late 1990s.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/n...oner-wales-abuse-inquiry?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

 

[elbows]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-20196086

Mr Towler told the BBC News Channel "What Steve Messham is telling us are... there are things he wanted to say... that for one reason or another, he wasn't able to say... if there are issues there for the police to investigate, then that needs to be investigated."
He said he would be writing to the first minister in Wales "as the children's commissioner to say... I'm concerned about what Steve Messham is saying and I want to make sure a full inquiry takes place to make sure that the evidence that he wants to give can be given."
On the claims surrounding the politician, who has not been publicly named, Mr Towler said: "Sometimes when people move to protect individuals or institutions, they do so at the expense of victims and that is unacceptable."
A Downing Street spokesman said: "Allegations of crimes should be reported to the police and fully investigated.
"If someone is concerned that an allegation was reported in the past but not fully investigated, they should raise this with the police or relevant authority so that they can look again at what happened."

 

[butchersapron]

I wonder if the independent report that Clywd Council commissioned but decided not to publish (due to their insurers Municipal Mutual/Zurich Municipal refusing to allow it) is ever going to get an airing? Is anyone pushing for this?

 

[elbows]

I wonder if the independent report that Clywd Council commissioned but decided not to publish (due to their insurers Municipal Mutual/Zurich Municipal refusing to allow it) is ever going to get an airing? Is anyone pushing for this?

Interviews I've seen recently suggest it was pulped to protect the councils insurance. All copies were numbered.

 

[Corax]

I wonder if the independent report that Clywd Council commissioned but decided not to publish (due to their insurers Municipal Mutual/Zurich Municipal refusing to allow it) is ever going to get an airing? Is anyone pushing for this?

Numbered copies were all pulped, so that would depend on the chance of someone having made a sneaky copy wouldn't it?

 

[butchersapron]

That or the independent investigators having kept a/multiple copies themselves before handing it over for publication.

 

[elbows]

That or the independent investigators having kept a/multiple copies themselves before handing it over for publication.

Or perhaps solicitors or insurers offices.

 

[butchersapron]

Or perhaps solicitors or insurers offices.

Yep, remember, this was the early 90s - it's not like computers and email etc didn't exist.

 

[elbows]

I cant see how the present situation with certain names is sustainable, even the likes of Monbiot and Sally Bercow are bringing up a name on Twitter, albeit without mentioning the context.

 

[elbows]

OK clearly the distribution of the Jillings report did not remain secure at the time:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/j...ns-homes-sex-case-may-be-shelved-1335761.html

The Secretary of State for Wales, William Hague, last night denounced the saga of the report, a copy of which was obtained by the Independent, as "a botched exercise which has raised more doubts than it has resolved".

 

[butchersapron]

Seems that there must be copies as judges previously ordered parts of it to be released after the original suppression in order to allow court cases to go ahead - i expect it was this sort of mess that led to the waterhouse report being established by Hague after he seemed to try to get a version published after this ruling.