Treacle Toes
Time
tom_watson @tom_watson
It's 10 days since I raised child abuse with the PM. Here's my thoughts on what's happened since: http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/10-days-that-shook-my-world …
tom_watson @tom_watson
It's 10 days since I raised child abuse with the PM. Here's my thoughts on what's happened since: http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/10-days-that-shook-my-world …
Fucking hell. It's really difficult to know how to order your thoughts about all of this now.
Can you expand on that? Cheers.
The more stuff that gets thrown around, when stuff you might have - in any other context - dismissed as fanciful conspiraloonery starts to look like there may be threads of truth in some of it, when there are newsnight programmes going out, hinting at this or that, when the Savile stuff continues to explode and look nastier and nastier, when more and more people are implicated, when people like Watson start blogging implying a fear for his own safety, and so on ..... I'm personally finding it difficult to do anything other than sit and stare at my computer or tv screen, completely confused and frustrated and astonished, trying to balance the in-built scepticism I have wrt blindly rushing headlong into speculation based on outright conspiraloonery on the one hand, and the knowledge of how dangerous it is to dismiss things out of hand, as happened for so long in the Savile case - and the range of feelings and positions that exist in between those two extremes.
The more stuff that gets thrown around, when stuff you might have - in any other context - dismissed as fanciful conspiraloonery starts to look like there may be threads of truth in some of it, when there are newsnight programmes going out, hinting at this or that, when the Savile stuff continues to explode and look nastier and nastier, when more and more people are implicated, when people like Watson start blogging implying a fear for his own safety, and so on ..... I'm personally finding it difficult to do anything other than sit and stare at my computer or tv screen, completely confused and frustrated and astonished, trying to balance the in-built scepticism I have wrt blindly rushing headlong into speculation based on outright conspiraloonery on the one hand, and the knowledge of how dangerous it is to dismiss things out of hand, as happened for so long in the Savile case - and the range of feelings and positions that exist in between those two extremes.
Why did you ask me to expand on that? Did you think I was referring to something other than what I just explained?
One of the victims from Bryn Estyn I believe. A disproportionate number of the others have died as well, sometimes in unusual circumstances.Watson mentioning "mysterious fires" reminds me of an abuse-related case back in (I think) the early '90s down in Brighton/Hove, where a guy who'd been through the care system, followed by the sadly usual round of substance use and incarceration, had straightened himself out, had spoken to a journo from a local paper (Brighton Argus, I think), and had got together with some other survivors of abuse at the same institutions, and set up a shared flat with them.
The fire that killed him and his flatmates was rumoured to have been the work of people who sometimes worked for Brighton's favourite slumlord, but Mr. Highstreet wouldn't have benefited from having a rentable property razed, whereas the abusers of a group of victims who'd decided to tell their tales, and who weren't looking to make mney through compo or through the media, had everything to gain by torching the place.
Watson mentioning "mysterious fires" reminds me of an abuse-related case back in (I think) the early '90s down in Brighton/Hove, where a guy who'd been through the care system, followed by the sadly usual round of substance use and incarceration, had straightened himself out, had spoken to a journo from a local paper (Brighton Argus, I think), and had got together with some other survivors of abuse at the same institutions, and set up a shared flat with them.
The fire that killed him and his flatmates was rumoured to have been the work of people who sometimes worked for Brighton's favourite slumlord, but Mr. Highstreet wouldn't have benefited from having a rentable property razed, whereas the abusers of a group of victims who'd decided to tell their tales, and who weren't looking to make mney through compo or through the media, had everything to gain by torching the place.
Why did you ask me to expand on that? Did you think I was referring to something other than what I just explained?
There are supposed links between that fire and the north wales Cheshire stuff - if you mean the one where 4 or 5 were people killed that is. I've not posted the links/story before as i haven't been able to find anything to back it up beyond what could well simply be paranoid sites leaping to conclusions (and i sort of forgot about it until now as well).Watson mentioning "mysterious fires" reminds me of an abuse-related case back in (I think) the early '90s down in Brighton/Hove, where a guy who'd been through the care system, followed by the sadly usual round of substance use and incarceration, had straightened himself out, had spoken to a journo from a local paper (Brighton Argus, I think), and had got together with some other survivors of abuse at the same institutions, and set up a shared flat with them.
The fire that killed him and his flatmates was rumoured to have been the work of people who sometimes worked for Brighton's favourite slumlord, but Mr. Highstreet wouldn't have benefited from having a rentable property razed, whereas the abusers of a group of victims who'd decided to tell their tales, and who weren't looking to make mney through compo or through the media, had everything to gain by torching the place.
There are supposed links between that fire and the north wales Cheshire stuff - if you mean the one where 4 or 5 were people killed that is. I've not posted the links/story before as i haven't been able to find anything to back it up beyond what could well simply be paranoid sites leaping to conclusions (and i sort of forgot about it until now as well).
Also the media is handling this very very quitely - 'man accuses politican of sex abuse' is a (small) sub heading on the graun website. 'victim seeks abuse investigation' is the simarlly bland sub heading on the bbc site. Meanwhile none of print papers have it on their front page - the Sun has a splash on allegations about the long dead Leonard Rossiter.
Seeing as this story would blow hackgate and saville out of the water - what is going on here? I'm hoping that there is some very busy digging going on behind the scenes.
Five abuse victims, and a health worker also.Yeah, it was the one where 5 people were killed.
Okay, thanks.That seems to be the conspiraloon lot conflating two issues.
There were complaints to police regarding Hamilton's behaviour towards the young boys who attended the youth clubs he directed. Complaints had been made of him having taken photographs of semi-naked boys without parental consent.[8]
Hamilton had been a Scout leader with the 4th/6th Stirling and 24th Stirlingshire troops of the Scout Association. Several complaints were made about his leadership, including two occasions when Scouts were forced to sleep with Hamilton in his van during hill-walking expeditions. Hamilton's Scout Warrant was withdrawn on 13 May 1974, with the County Commissioner stating that he was "suspicious of his moral intentions towards boys".[9]
He claimed in letters that rumours about him led to the failure of his shop business in 1993, and in the last months of his life he complained again that his attempts to organise a boys' club were subject to persecution by local police and the scout movement. Among those to whom he complained were Queen Elizabeth and local Member of Parliament, Michael Forsyth. In the 1980s, another MP, George Robertson, who resided in Dunblane, had complained to Forsyth about Hamilton's local boys' club, which his son had attended. On the day following the massacre, Robertson spoke of having argued with Hamilton "in my own home".[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
I didn't know this though and seeing as it's on a wiki-page can't confirm it:
Wikipedia tends to have references at the bottom of the page. In this case its Hansard:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199596/cmhansrd/vo960314/debtext/60314-05.htm
Monday 21 February 2000 15.01 GMT
If Mr Jones does not get a fresh inquiry or action from the police, he says he will use parliamentary privilege to name names in the Commons.
- An MP yesterday threatened to use parliamentary privilege to reveal the names of at least six more suspected child sex abusers linked to the north Wales care home scandal.
- Martyn Jones, Labour MP for Clwyd South, believes that last week's Waterhouse report did not uncover the full extent of the crimes. He said there were still people named by known victims of the care home abusers who had not been properly investigated.
Some of those on Mr Jones's list are believed still to be working in positions where they might come into contact with children.
Mr Jones, chairman of the Commons Welsh select committee, made a similar threat to "out" alleged abusers in order to pressure the John Major administration to launch the Waterhouse inquiry.
He added: "The names I have, I have known since 1989 - they are not simply malicious allegations on the back of the recent publicity."
• The hunt was continuing yesterday for two men believed to have been involved in the murder of a convicted child rapist. William Bruce Malcolm, 44, died after being shot in the head on Thursday night in Manor Park, east London.
I just realised that the conservative MP named in this article was the deputy director of the conservative party research department from 1990-96, and David Cameron worked for the same research department from 1988-93.
I'm not suggesting Cameron was involved in any cover up then, as apart from anything else, I don't think the timings match, but I do think this raises serious questions about his impartiality now when it comes to exposing the activities of someone he worked with directly for 3 years (if there was anything to be exposed).
In 1994, person x, who was later to become a Conservative MP, used his skills in strategic studies to putScallywagout of business. He was understandably aggrieved by its wholly false accusations – that he was preparing a dossier on the (non-existent) homosexual activities of Tony Blair, then leader of the Labour opposition, and that he was himself a secret homosexual, transvestite and frequenter of male dens of iniquity who used women from escort agencies to accompany him to political events – but Scallywag's editor, Simon Regan, who was living on income support and disability benefit, made it clear that neither he nor the magazine was worth suing.
However, when x denied these allegations, Scallywag added insult to injury by accusing him of lying, leaving him with the problem of how to nail these demonstrably false claims to protect his prospects of remaining a parliamentary candidate. Either he had to tolerate them, running the risk of a whispering campaign, or he had to sue for libel without piling up huge costs that would be irrecoverable from an assetless libeller.
X decided to sue the printer, six distributors and two retailers and in the end he recovered £39,500 damages plus a much larger sum in costs. The printer and distributors could have been in little doubt as to the libellous content of Scallywag. x supplied details of the magazine's distributors and printers to former police superintendent Gordon Anglesea who, as we saw in Chapter 6, had also been libelled by Scallywag, and he too sued. x was in turn sued by "Scallywag Ltd" for malicious falsehood, but after he defended the action as a litigant in person without incurring costs that claim was not pursued. Shortly afterwards the assetless company was struck off the register of companies.
In his final years Regan devoted himself to propagating his belief that Diana, Princess of Wales had been killed in a conspiracy.
The more stuff that gets thrown around, when stuff you might have - in any other context - dismissed as fanciful conspiraloonery starts to look like there may be threads of truth in some of it
I reckon this telegraph article from a few years ago belongs in this thread as well.
It seems a wee bit unlikely that Jimmy Savile, one of the BBC's highest profile presenters in the 70s and 80s would have escaped MI5's attention.
This leads to the conclusion that either MI5 were completely incompetent, and missed JS's activities for decades while they were carrying out these background checks, or they knew about it and just chose to ignore it without any ulteria motive, or they knew about it and maybe used their evidence to force JS to become a tout for them or worse.
That'd certainly explain his ability to hide his activities in plain site, and the willingness of the BBC to not expect there to be any truth to the rumours about him (if he'd been cleared by MI5), as well as the willingness to hand over the running of Broadmoor to him - if MI5 had cleared him already.
It'd also potentially explain some of the odd stuff he hinted at in his theroux interview and elsewhere. It seems quite likely he'd have been an MI5 tout for decades.
That'd also put his apparent frequent chequers visits at Christmas with several different prime ministers into a different light - not just a quirky old entertainer, or even a paedo, but a long time MI5 tout having cosy fireside chats with the PMs of the day for 2 decades.
Would it have been Dyfed-Powys police involved in the welsh abuse scandal and being accused of having high ranking members involved?
If so, I've just remembered some tales a mate of mine told me while he lived down there that had come from his lass who'd been working as a stripper in the area for several years, including at private events involving several members of the upper echelons of Dyfed Powys police.
These girls were over aged, but late teens / early 20's at best, and IIRC there was a fair amount of open kinkiness involved.
So I can well believe that if any of them had been involved in anything involving under aged kids, then they'd have had enough dirt on all the others to ensure that it got covered up even if not all of them had been involved.