Horizon: Should I eat Meat?

[editor]

Not at all.

Historically Jeff has been the ONLY vegetarian worth reading on these boards, though Fred seems also to be providing some level of debate, in contrast to the usual vacuousness delivered by yourself and other veggies on these threads.

What a really, really stupid and insulting remark.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

How far back you going with this?

Did prehistoric man eat intensely farmed processed meat then?

Yep, that's exactly what I said.

 

[editor]

Yep, that's exactly what I said.

Be sure to elaborate on how far back you'd like to go here then, and be sure to make a meaningful comparison.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Be sure to elaborate on how far back you'd like to go here then, and be sure to make a meaningful comparison.

Are you honestly trying to deny that humankind has eaten meat since we first crawled out of the swamp

 

[ddraig]

editor, you will be told and told and questioned and picked and demanded evidence of until you shut up or get fed up
it is how all these threads go these days

 

[Jeff Robinson]

But this will never, ever happen. So let's aim for something achievable instead - the reduction of intensive farming methods, more humane farming practices, a reduction in the use of pesticides, embrace the idea of locally grown/reared food to reduce transport mileage etc etc

It will never, ever happen whilst we continue to accept the logic and inevitability of our current use of animals. We can as individuals reject that in the here in and now. We can also come together collectively to create alternatives. Our current practices are a choice we make as individuals and as a society, let us not pretend otherwise.

 

[editor]

Are you honestly trying to deny that humankind has eaten meat since we first crawled out of the swamp

I'm sorry to disappoint you here, but you are indeed Lord Wrong, ruler of Incorrectland.

Shattering The Meat Myth: Humans Are Natural Vegetarians

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods."

That jibes with what Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine President Dr. Neal Barnard says in his book, The Power of Your Plate, in which he explains that "early humans had diets very much like other great apes, which is to say a largely plant-based diet, drawing on foods we can pick with our hands. Research suggests that meat-eating probably began by scavenging--eating the leftovers that carnivores had left behind. However, our bodies have never adapted to it. To this day, meat-eaters have a higher incidence of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and other problems."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Humans can get all the nutrition we need in a variety of ways, hence our success on every continent save antarctica.

Problem is that you can't win the argument that meat is wrong. Too many people are just fine with eating meat. But imo an argument centred on welfare, environment and sustainability can gain plenty of traction. But to do that you need to stop telling meat eaters they are doing an evil thing.

 

[sleaterkinney]

What do meat eaters think about some of the more intensive farming methods (i.e. the methods by which a large amount of meat is produced?).

Certainly most of the red meat you get in shops is not produced using intensive farming methods, poultry is another story and I would search out free range stuff.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It will never, ever happen whilst we continue to accept the logic and inevitability of our current use of animals. We can as individuals reject that in the here in and now. We can also come together collectively to create alternatives. Our current practices are a choice we make as individuals and as a society, let us not pretend otherwise.

But I don't see how or why we're suddenly going to change thousands of years of well, what humans do. Let's get rid of all the horrible farming practices first, then see where we might go after that.

 

[Spymaster]

What a really, really stupid and insulting remark.

Didn't man to insult (well perhaps Draig) but it's true.

These threads always go the same way. A few vegetarians bring up environmental impact and animal suffering, they're addressed by the meat eaters whom they largely ignore, moral high ground is sought by all, bunfight ensues, and Draig sits on the sidelines occasionally popping in to intimate that it's the meat eaters who are obviously in the wrong and debate is pointless.

JR engages in a polite and informed way that requires some thought to respond to.

 

[Spymaster]

editor, you will be told and told and questioned and picked and demanded evidence of until you shut up or get fed up
it is how all these threads go these days

See what I mean!

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm sorry to disappoint you here, but you are indeed Lord Wrong, ruler of Incorrectland.

Oh look, I can do a quick Google too:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...rs-discovery-ancient-childs-skull-proves.html

 

[editor]

Humans can get all the nutrition we need in a variety of ways, hence our success on every continent save antarctica.

Problem is that you can't win the argument that meat is wrong. Too many people are just fine with eating meat. But imo an argument centred on welfare, environment and sustainability can gain plenty of traction. But to do that you need to stop telling meat eaters they are doing an evil thing.

I'm not saying meat is wrong, but I will say that many of the intensive farming methods are wrong (to my ethics, maybe not yours), and there's growing evidence that a meat heavy diet can lead to fairly catastrophic environmental and health problems.

 

[weltweit]

everything in moderation

especially anchovies

 

[editor]

Oh look, I can do a quick Google too:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...rs-discovery-ancient-childs-skull-proves.html

Exactly how does that contradict the article I posted?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Or this maybe:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit.html#.U_M1WEtH1lI

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm sorry to disappoint you here, but you are indeed Lord Wrong, ruler of Incorrectland.

This is bullshit. The inuit are proof of that. Total speculative bullshit. On my phone, but i've linked to decent science on this before. Humans have eaten meat for as long as humans have been around. And we are flexible. That is our evolutionary heritage.

 

[editor]

Or this maybe:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit.html#.U_M1WEtH1lI

Except its opening paragraph contradicts your claims!

Humans evolved beyond their vegetarian roots and became meat-eaters at the dawn of the genus Homo, around 2.5 million years ago, according to a study of our ancestors' teeth.

 

[ddraig]

Didn't man to insult (well perhaps Draig) but it's true.

These threads always go the same way. A few vegetarians bring up environmental impact and animal suffering, they're addressed by the meat eaters whom they largely ignore, moral high ground is sought by all, bunfight ensues, and Draig sits on the sidelines occasionally popping in to intimate that it's the meat eaters who are obviously in the wrong and debate is pointless.

JR engages in a polite and informed way that requires some thought to respond to.

why do you want to insult me?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Except its opening paragraph contradicts your claims!

So, we're only trying to undo 2.5 million years then? Brilliant, we should have that cracked by teatime

 

[editor]

This is bullshit. The inuit are proof of that. Total speculative bullshit. On my phone, but i've linked to decent science on this before. Humans have eaten meat for as long as humans have been around. And we are flexible. That is our evolutionary heritage.

Oh OK. You must know better than the professor emeritus at Cornell University, what with all your qualifications and shizzle. I'll look forward to your peer reviewed paper refuting his claims.

 

[editor]

So, we're only trying to undo 2.5 million years then? Brilliant, we should have that cracked by teatime

I think you've already forgotten what you posted. Weird.

 

[ddraig]

now now ed, argue in an acceptable way for meat eaters!

 

[Supine]

Your life must be very difficult.

Lol, it was just a bit too much on my wide screen tv. I don't mind it in real life thank god!

 

[joustmaster]

Problem is that you can't win the argument that meat is wrong. Too many people are just fine with eating meat. But imo an argument centred on welfare, environment and sustainability can gain plenty of traction.

I think too many people are fine with the poor welfare and environmental aspects, as well.
I think the majority of people don't really care, when it comes down to it.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I think you've already forgotten what you posted. Weird.

What the fuck are you on about

 

[Cid]

How long have domesticated plant species been around I wonder?

 

[fredfelt]

Where does that stat come from?

If you are interested look it up! There's a large degree of variance depending where you go. Here's one that suggest the toll for an average British person is 11,000 animals in a lifetime

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/jul/18/vegetarianism-save-planet-environment

 

[joustmaster]

why do you want to insult me?

probably because you post like a dickhead on these types of threads.
most people are having a normal conversation about stuff, with interesting points put in from both sides.