Holyrood elections May 2021

[danny la rouge]

Yup, there’s a Scottish Parliament election this year. Chaos in the SNP rank and file so far doesn’t look like it’ll have much impact on the outcome.

This morning the withered vestige of the SSP announced it’s not fielding any candidates, because they can’t put stalls out in high streets during a pandemic. [cough]bollocks[/cough]



More fascinating news from the empty hustings halls as it comes in.

 

[Sue]

I thought the SSP had died a death years ago. Obviously my finger is very far from the (faint and thready) SSP pulse.

 

[marty21]

A mate of mine stood for the SSP years ago, almost saved his deposit once!

 

[steeplejack]

I thought the SSP had died a death years ago. Obviously my finger is very far from the (faint and thready) SSP pulse.

The SSP was in rude health immediately after the referendum result of 2014, enjoying a sympathetic bounce to the tune of c. 3,000 new members (the Greens went up by double that and the SNP by tens of thousands).

They barely feature these days thanks to a sclerotic and barely functioning administration, and an abysmal, authoritarian, shouty-loudhailer leadership that should have been emptied years ago. Both these factors saw the post-independence engagement squandered badly. Current membership is apparently now in the low hundreds and there are very few functioning branches.

I doubt Squalidarity (the pro-Sheridan splinter from the SSP) will be standing either, as the Great Helmsman no longer seems to be leading the "party".

Probably slim pickings for the cobweb left on the ballot paper in a couple of months time. Conor Beaton's new-ish Republican Socialist Platform is interesting but not really an electoral formation. Conor of course left the SSP a few years back after withering and painfully honest criticism of the SSP leadership's shortcomings.

It's a pity the Communist Party of Scotland (the small-pro independence grouping whose Gen Sec Eric Canning was an elder statesman in the cross-party Yes campaign last time) is no longer functioning. It was largely a discussion group under Canning, and the party seems to have gone west with him. There are burnt out old Trade Unionists who occasionally run on the CPGB pro-Brexit ticket on lists, but, no thanks.

I'm not sure who my list vote will go to now. The Green Party can get to fuck, so it will either be a vote for anyone with vaguely left credentials, or Cock& Balls.

 

[danny la rouge]

The two (count them, two) new disgruntled nationalists parties - Action For Independence Party (AfI) and Independence for Scotland Party (ISP) - don’t seem to be have been troubling the polls. I imagine they’re known only to 1500 twitter users and will have to split those votes between them.

Here are their websites, after perusing which you’ll still be as baffled as you were before.

Afi.scot

Independence for Scotland Party – ISP

www.isp.scot

 

[belboid]

Calling your party ISP?

Sounds like something David Brent would come up with aftree three lager shandy's

 

[geminisnake]

The two (count them, two) new disgruntled nationalists parties - Action For Independence Party (AfI) and Independence for Scotland Party (ISP) - don’t seem to be have been troubling the polls. I imagine they’re known only to 1500 twitter users and will have to split those votes between them.

Here are their websites, after perusing which you’ll still be as baffled as you were before.

Afi.scot

Independence for Scotland Party – ISP

www.isp.scot

Plenty of folk know about both parties, from what I see online quite a few folk are intending to vote ISP

 

[belboid]

Aah, the ISP is the transphobic group with 12 of 15 candidates being male

 

[belboid]

I see there is Now Scotland too, tho surely they won’t embarrass themselves by actually standing

New group could take the fight for independence forward in Scotland - Socialist Worker

A new organisation, Now Scotland, was launched last weekend to campaign for Scottish independence. Over 1,500 people had joined by Sunday afternoon.

socialistworker.co.uk

 

[Fedayn]

AFI being the non SWP Sheridanistas choice seeing as Lynn Sheridan and Jock Penman are on board.

 

[danny la rouge]

I see there is Now Scotland too, tho surely they won’t embarrass themselves by actually standing

New group could take the fight for independence forward in Scotland - Socialist Worker

A new organisation, Now Scotland, was launched last weekend to campaign for Scottish independence. Over 1,500 people had joined by Sunday afternoon.

socialistworker.co.uk

That’s news to me. And I’m a nerd, so you can be certain that the person on the Carntyne omnibus won’t know about them.

 

[danny la rouge]

Plenty of folk know about both parties, from what I see online quite a few folk are intending to vote ISP

The vast majority of people are unaware of the ructions going on inside the activist bubble.

 

[danny la rouge]

AFI being the non SWP Sheridanistas choice seeing as Lynn Sheridan and Jock Penman are on board.

Yup. And Craig Murray has offered his dubious services too.

 

[danny la rouge]

I’ve asked two chat groups I’m on the following:


Small Vox pop experiment:

Have you heard of these parties?

-AfI (Action for Independence)

- ISP (Independence for Scotland Party)

- Now Scotland

Questions:

A) which, if any have you heard of?

B) If yes, what do you know about the one/s you’ve heard of?

C) how widespread do you think that knowledge is?

——-results——-

My siblings Telegram chat have all replied. (I am the oldest of five with two brothers and two sisters).

Youngest brother (politically engaged, uses Facebook, has been a Green supporter but as far as I know not a member). Lives in Bannockburn. Answered:

“Not heard of any of them. So not very widespread. Maybe a good thing as there is danger they could split the vote”

The older of my two younger brothers, former SNP activist (attended meetings, went canvassing). Lives in Dunblane works in Edinburgh:

“Same ☝”.

The older of my two younger sisters, member of Commonweal, active in women’s causes, lives and works in Edinburgh:

“Likewise, but I don't do Facebook or whatnot anymore. I would otherwise probably have heard of them through links from Commonweal colleagues.”

My youngest sister, lives in the Stirling area. Pro independence, but not actively involved in anything:

“No”.

So that completes chat 1. I’ll let you know about my old school friends WhatsApp chat when I have results.

 

[danny la rouge]

WhatsApp replies (7 in group excluding me):

Friend in Fife, pro indy, uses social media:

"I’ve heard of AFI & ISP but not Now Scotland. Don’t know much about them except it looks like AFI have Craig Murray as a candidate"

Friend in Clacks, former SNP member, pro indy very active on social media:

"ISP and AFI have arisen because of the kerfuffle over the gender recognition act, and the Alex Salmond debacle respectively, both groups are concerned about lack of momentum towards independence, and the SNP trying to save England from itself re Brexit. ISP has been floating around for a around a year, they suffered a bit of a blow to their credibility, when one of their founder members, an American woman living in Orkney was revealed as a Trump supporter back in November. Now Scotland is an independence think tank come debating group part of the wider YES movement. I can see the point of playing the list to maximise the pro Indy vote, but it would have to be super organised".

Friends in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Alloa, Elgin:

"No."

So that's 2 out of 11 with fairly detailed knowledge, but 9 for whom my message was the first they'd heard.

 

[danny la rouge]

Brother who works in Edinburgh, now on lunch break, adds:

“Oh are these the crazies who think Nicola doesn’t want indy?”

I assured him that was an accurate reading.

 

[steeplejack]

The AFI certainly have got an echo of the pre-scandal SSP's line, which called for an SNP/SSP vote back in the old days.

They're far too late to the party for their strategy of a supermax indy majority being anything other than a slogan, however. The less said about the ISP (anti-GRA activists in the main whose sole focus is independence for, well, its own sake) the better.

Toammy is using his Sputnik column to push the line that the AFI will ensure a supermax majority come May. Aye, right. They've signed up one or two candidates with a high profile, such as Hugh Kerr, ex-Labour MEP.

It remains to be seen what David Davis' "whistleblower" revelations last night wiil have- little, I suspect. Increasingly I feel that given the circumstances and given that the SNP is a total mess from top to bottom, that they will get back in, in much the same way as Labour did in the 2001 UK election- on a low turnout and without all that much enthusiasm.

Chances of indyref 2 any time soon : close to zero.

 

[danny la rouge]

The AFI certainly have got an echo of the pre-scandal SSP's line, which called for an SNP/SSP vote back in the old days.

They're far too late to the party for their strategy of a supermax indy majority being anything other than a slogan, however. The less said about the ISP (anti-GRA activists in the main whose sole focus is independence for, well, its own sake) the better.

Toammy is using his Sputnik column to push the line that the AFI will ensure a supermax majority come May. Aye, right. They've signed up one or two candidates with a high profile, such as Hugh Kerr, ex-Labour MEP.

It remains to be seen what David Davis' "whistleblower" revelations last night wiil have- little, I suspect. Increasingly I feel that given the circumstances and given that the SNP is a total mess from top to bottom, that they will get back in, in much the same way as in 2001- on a low turnout and without all that much enthusiasm.

Chances of indyref 2 any time soon : close to zero.

Do you think the SNP will put “indyref2” on the ballot papers alongside their party name?

 

[Fedayn]

The AFI certainly have got an echo of the pre-scandal SSP's line, which called for an SNP/SSP vote back in the old days.

They're far too late to the party for their strategy of a supermax indy majority being anything other than a slogan, however. The less said about the ISP (anti-GRA activists in the main whose sole focus is independence for, well, its own sake) the better.

Toammy is using his Sputnik column to push the line that the AFI will ensure a supermax majority come May. Aye, right. They've signed up one or two candidates with a high profile, such as Hugh Kerr, ex-Labour MEP.

It remains to be seen what David Davis' "whistleblower" revelations last night wiil have- little, I suspect. Increasingly I feel that given the circumstances and given that the SNP is a total mess from top to bottom, that they will get back in, in much the same way as in 2001- on a low turnout and without all that much enthusiasm.

Chances of indyref 2 any time soon : close to zero.

In one of his columns in Sputnik, Sheridan called for the return to frontline politics for Salmond. A man who Salmonds own QC referred to as an 'objectionable bully' and a 'sex pest'. Is that who we really want involve in progressive politics? Sheridan really is an objectionable narcissistic scumbag, with a lovely sideline in mysogyny

 

[steeplejack]

Yes my referencing of Sheridan shouldn't be interpreted as approval! Merely for context in the discussion against the ever-widening alphabet soup of pro-Indy "alliances" that are not much more significant than a Ford Transit minibus carrying a pub football team. I won't be voting for either formation as they seem opportunist and full of dodgy chancers.

I've no idea whether the SNP will put "IndyRef 2" on the ballot paper.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yes my referencing of Sheridan shouldn't be interpreted as approval! Merely for context in the discussion against the ever-widening alphabet soup of pro-Indy "alliances" that are not much more significant than a Ford Transit minibus carrying a pub football team.

I've no idea whether the SNP will put "IndyRef 2" on the ballot paper.

There was a suggestion they were applying to do so. If they do, a majority for SNP + Green (let’s face it the Cherryite and Salmondite breakaways won’t win anything) gives an unanswerable mandate for a referendum.

 

[Fedayn]

Yes my referencing of Sheridan shouldn't be interpreted as approval! Merely for context in the discussion against the ever-widening alphabet soup of pro-Indy "alliances" that are not much more significant than a Ford Transit minibus carrying a pub football team. I won't be voting for either formation as they seem opportunist and full of dodgy chancers.

I've no idea whether the SNP will put "IndyRef 2" on the ballot paper.

Yup, I am looking at it similarly, depressingly similarly. It was once such a different view.....

 

[steeplejack]

There was a suggestion they were applying to do so. If they do, a majority for SNP + Green (let’s face it the Cherryite and Salmondite breakaways won’t win anything) gives an unanswerable mandate for a referendum.

Sure, the mandate will be unanswerable, but it will be ignored in favour of an apparent UK-branded "spending spree" in 2022.

Ugly, ugly times lie ahead. It is very depressing.

 

[danny la rouge]

Sure, the mandate will be unanswerable, but it will be ignored in favour of an apparent UK-branded "spending spree" in 2022.

Ugly, ugly times lie ahead. It is very depressing.

It is indeed a depressing prospect.

 

[steeplejack]

It it were less grim I'd probably make a joke about "a situation of dual power" but instead of armed workers' councils as the dual-antagonist we have a London Tory government, who doesn't understand us and, for the large part, fucking hates us.

 

[Sue]

The AFI certainly have got an echo of the pre-scandal SSP's line, which called for an SNP/SSP vote back in the old days.

They're far too late to the party for their strategy of a supermax indy majority being anything other than a slogan, however. The less said about the ISP (anti-GRA activists in the main whose sole focus is independence for, well, its own sake) the better.

Toammy is using his Sputnik column to push the line that the AFI will ensure a supermax majority come May. Aye, right. They've signed up one or two candidates with a high profile, such as Hugh Kerr, ex-Labour MEP.

It remains to be seen what David Davis' "whistleblower" revelations last night wiil have- little, I suspect. Increasingly I feel that given the circumstances and given that the SNP is a total mess from top to bottom, that they will get back in, in much the same way as in 2001- on a low turnout and without all that much enthusiasm.

Chances of indyref 2 any time soon : close to zero.

Yeah, I suspect Davis weighing in on the side of poor wee Eck will only make people batten down the hatches even more.

 

[danny la rouge]

Yeah, I suspect Davis weighing in on the side of poor wee Eck will only make people batten down the hatches even more.

It’s really weird watching the melt down. I’ve gone back on Twitter recently, and it’s like another world in there. I feel no connection to it at all, but to each side it seems all-consuming.

 

[steeplejack]

It's why I only use twitter for non-politics things on the whoie. The partisans on either side are totally batshit insane. Fortunately they have little to no purchse beyond the keyboard.

It's a weird twilight world of contrasting "I'll never vote SNP because of GRA / because GRA is insufficiently militant for my taste" and shirpit wee men in librarians' jumpers claiming branch numbers have jumped 223% since last week, despite the travails of Sturgeon v Salmond.

very, very weird.

 

[geminisnake]

Youngest brother (politically engaged, uses Facebook, has been a Green supporter but as far as I know not a member). Lives in Bannockburn. Answered:

“Not heard of any of them. So not very widespread. Maybe a good thing as there is danger they could split the vote”

This split the vote comment keeps getting pushed, what split, what vote? I fecking LOATHE the local SNP candidate, I wouldn't cross the street to spit on him, so if I do vote for him it will be holding my nose and feeling fucking sick about it tbh, husband won't vote for him at all and as for SNP getting a 2nd vote ffrom either of us, not happening ever, so who are we meant to vote for?
I'm sick of being told to vote SNP to get independence, sorry but they don't appear to be doing much to me. Why should I and plenty of others not have anyone to vote for? If folk who won't ever vote SNP vote ISP or whatever that's not splitting the vote in the slightest afaic

 

[steeplejack]

Yeah that's completely fair enough.

However much as the SNP candidate may be uninspiring round my way, there's really no-one else to vote for. Voting will be overshadowed too by an attempt to get rid of a toxic, stitched-up, staggeringly wasteful / incompetent local council. That may drive support for the SNP a bit in this micro climate.

Personally I wouldn't touch the ISP's farrago of angry internet weirdos and fundies with a bargepole, and the AFI don't seem too much better. An SNP vote on the list is a waste, so what to do. Spoilt ballot as things stand.