This subject goes downhill fast which is why it isn’t really discussed. Wish I knew what the answer was.
Westminster to use constitutional tool to block Holyrood gender recognition law.
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
If they win I strongly suspect it will also help their downfall
If trans people were discussing their issues then the trans threads on urban would be full of people moaning about how shitty trans healthcare is in the UK. or whether surgery is the right decision or workplace discrimination or seeking support because they'd just been abused in the street or sexually harassed by some grim man. Trans people don't get to do that here, all they get to do is defend trans people and try to correct misinformation and misunderstandings made by cis people. And even that seems too much for some to tolerate.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Whilst I'd love to see the Tories get a bloody nose in this battle, independence for Scotland would probably condemn England to perpetual Tory government!
Can you point to where Trans people have tried to discuss:
And it's been rebuked? All I'm seeing is both sides of the argument exaggerate stuff as tactics against the other. Which isn't a healthy looking way forward.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The LGBTQ+ Sofa would seem to me to be a place where you could discuss those kinds of issues. I would be amazed if anyone gave you grief on there for doing so. If they did, they'd be shouted down, no?
But when it comes to issues such as the rights and wrongs of gender self-ID, there isn't a broad consensus of opinion on here.
But when it comes to issues such as the rights and wrongs of gender self-ID, there isn't a broad consensus of opinion on here.
The previous thread which ended up very damaging for the community was called We Need To Talk (Terf Bigots). Not really about Trans Healthcare or Surgery and the like.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
So ghettoisation to a single thread for what is 'supposed' to be a 'community'? And that is what has been happening here, trans/queer discussions marginalised because people can't be open even on a place like urban. You privileged fucking pricks.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I started that post by writing that I'm not a fan of ghettoisation on here, but decided to edit it out for brevity. But these places exist for those who want to discuss certain issues - parents sofa, etc. It's not like they're hidden away. And anyone can start threads if they want to. They might die a death - many of mine have - but we're free to do it.
Anyhow, passive aggression has now turned into simple aggression. I'm out.
Have these threads been attempted in nobbin and sobbin and been rebuffed? I don't tend to go in there much but that's terrible if that has happened. The big thread was political rather than about individual issues though. I wish I hadn't involved myself.
Completely missed the point. How comfortable do you think trans people would be discussing personal issues on here when people like you would turn it into a big intellectual debating game or use it to score points in the never ending trans debate.
It's disallowed in nobbing and sobbing. Whether that's adhered to or not I don't know but it's supposed to be unlike the other forums especially P&P.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
What the fuck 'community' is urban if you can't be welcomed and talk openly about your experiences across the forum without being told 'can we keep it to the trans thread'. And that's happened quite a lot and I've observed that reaction from posters I have a lot of time for (or did). Think this would be tolerated if someone was black or gay talking about their experiences? Urban used to be better than this.
Jennaonthebeach
If you say so
and when i very mildly challenged them I was told to keep the thread positive and upbeat - so no trans stuff to be discussed there.
Did you report it?
No, they got telt and they've not done it again since. Point is it happened though.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
Was that me saying no shit stirring on the sofa?
It's not so much that I think the sofa should be kept positive and upbeat, it's just that I would just hate it to become the bare knuckle terf/trans pile on that all the political threads become. You know for k & s gubbins and stuff.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
It’s a not-publicly-viewable-treat-people-kindly-or-take-it-elsewhere space, innit.
Somewhere supportive where the usual interminable arguing the toss is on hold for a bit.
That’s not to say no negative shizz can be discussed, obv. More about just taking a break from the battling between ourselves and some solidarity for the outside battles.
Mistakes will happen there just like everywhere, obv, but anyone should be able to call out when someone is bringing bad beef in the door.
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I'm not trans but it's pretty obvious to me that it would not be possible to discuss possibly quite personal issues to an audience that includes people who are fundamentally hostile to you and a bigger section who will always defend those people and the vast majority of other posters will just look the other way. Even if everybody behaves on a safe ghettoised trans thread it's an institutional problem. The key people are well respected long time posters.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I said above there's been an abject refusal to moderate trans threads. And there has been, editor's basically said as much. So reporting something knowing it won't be acted on, where's the point in doing that?
The political ones yes. But different rules if someone is being a dick in N & S surely?
E2a: Should be a simpler procedure if eg a cis person was pissing about on a thread about transitioning in N & S as it wouldn’t look like a passing mod was taking sides.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
if someone's being a hate misogynist cunt or being a hateful racist cunt or being a hateful transphobic cunt the same rules should apply whether in knobbing and sobbing or in p&p. you presume the mods would take sides. i see nothing to confirm that. at least it'd be a start and not the refusal to moderate which we see atm
I agree. But in this instance I was responding to a post about an issue in N & S.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh and i covered that. if someone's being a hateful cunt the mods should take action, whether this occurs in p&p or k&s or even in dulwich hamlet. e2a: people can be banned from threads, given er 'words of instruction' as the police have it, or receive a temp or perma ban. but there's a refusal to take action atm on this subject. there's a limit to self-moderation or the actions posters can take, and if the mods find themselves short staffed perhaps a few mods might be taken on for a period to see how they get on. there are a number of posters here - myself not among them - who would make good mods, i'm sure we can all think of a couple of names.
I agree. Although I guess the difficulty arises due to differing opinions of where the line is where transphobia begins and likewise the other direction into misogyny. I guarantee a consensus would never be reached hence the reluctance to moderate.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't think any of the instances where the mods might have become involved are on that liminal boundary
Athos
Well-Known Member
In this thread, which posts did you have in mind? I'm guessing the misgendering, but any others?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i haven't read all the posts on this thread, nor am i going to, but several of of co-op's posts i've seen seemed likely to have attracted mod comment. e2a: but the thing about moderation is that it is - or ought to be - as much about prevention as about disciplining and if a mod had popped by and said something then the more gratuitous posts might never have been made
Athos
Well-Known Member
That seems a bit of a cop-out, to criticise the moderators response without being specific about what it is they should have responded to. Which of Co-op's posts that you have read, specifically? (And this isn't a defence of him; he clearly obsessed, and quite probably is a transphobe.)
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