ska invita
back on the other side
there is zero distinction, its a binary, carry on killing or stop killing - er abstain! thats carry on killing in practice
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
I agree.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. It's Starmer's Parliamentary Labour Party's Iraq War moment (coming before they're even in power ffs). You either pass or fail the test. And there's no coming back after that, as the likes of Claire Short found out. There is no 'middle way'.
Yep his first crisis already and he can’t even deal with that.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Christmas has been cancelled in Bethlehem
Therer wil be no celebrations, and no tree in Manger Square
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
Political correctness gone mad
ska invita
back on the other side
impressive how theyve shut down so much independent reporting....and the death toll counting has stopped now also i gather
TopCat
Putin fanboy
We are being encouraged to stop caring
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's managed to alienate a whole section of society. The same section of society, more or less, that Blair managed to alienate 20 years ago. Funny that. It's almost like some kinds of people don't matter as much as others.
ska invita
back on the other side
yes.....i think the death counting thing is that the health agency was reliant on hospitals to provide those very accurate numbers.... and we know what happened to the hospitals
Raheem
Well-Known Member
"But it was only a matter of time."
teqniq
DisMembered
Worth a read. A mixture of statements from the Iranians themselves plus analysis.
Iran told US it did not want Israel-Hamas war to escalate
Iran told US it did not want Israel-Hamas war to escalate
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
Dunno if we’ve had this yet but the bbc has finally been slightly critical of the israeli propaganda
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Revision to figures
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
From a sort of morbid curiosity what is Mason's line on Israel's actions?
Find twitter absolutely impossible to read these days, but this gives me the answer
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Raheem
Well-Known Member
Could the "burning" part just be the best Israel can do in terms of an explanation as to why it took a month to realise they were Palestinian?
teqniq
DisMembered
This article states that the US has had to apply a lot of pressure to get the Israelis to concede to allow more fuel into Gaza. Perhaps if they cut off or greatly reduced the flow of financial and military aid to Israel they would surely get much quicker results?
Israel approves daily entry of fuel into Gaza after U.S. pressure
Israel approves daily entry of fuel into Gaza after U.S. pressure
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I suppose realistically the investigators et al have had to piece together a painstaking and complex list of those identified as dead, those identified as possibly dead or missing, those identified as having been kidnapped etc. So I'm happy with estimates, this random 200 figure does pose more questions than answers though.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
I am not saying I know anything, but it was claimed by (I think) Hezbollah some time ago that the media portrayal or what happened at the music festival (a Batalclan-style killing spree) was not the true picture. The claim was that most of the dead were not frestival-goers, but Hamas fighters who had been killed in a battle with the event's (presumably fairly strong) security. Two hundred deaths being moved from one column to another might be related to that. Or, equally, it might not.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
All the babies in incubators in Al-Shifa are now dead. New borns are dying now too.
Now they are telling staff in West Bank hospitals to evacuate.
As much as I condemn what happened to innocent people on October the 7th I am sick of hearing this 9/11 dog whistle date to justify genocide and killing more babies. While our leaders stand and applaud.
Fuck them.
Fuck them, fuck them, fuck them.
I have no words.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I do. String up those complacent, complaisant cunts
Cid
Proper break this time
Even graun (and BBC mentioned in article) entirely unconvinced by IDF 'evidence' around Al Shifa, e.g:
www.theguardian.com
IDF evidence so far falls well short of al-Shifa hospital being Hamas HQ
Footage to date fails to prove Gaza complex was nerve centre for attacks on Israel, as military had claimed
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
BBC is still at this 'for balance' bollocks where it won't mention one without the other. 6 o'clock news on World Service today led with a piece about the technology they were using to find the bodies of those killed on 7 October. Led with it. First item.
Cid
Proper break this time
The BBC verify bit reported in above article is surprisingly hard to find, but you can view it on this reddit thread. It's from yesterday, but couldn't see it mentioned here.
Also, the 'weapons cache'. It's in an MRI machine room. Y'know, the place where people definitely put magnetic objects just casually like.
Also, the 'weapons cache'. It's in an MRI machine room. Y'know, the place where people definitely put magnetic objects just casually like.
Cid
Proper break this time
I mean obviously there has been very limited power for ages, so won't have been running. But still.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Starts out good. I actually agree with first section.
This sums up first section
What Mason says is that Starmer got elected leader. Then ditched the ten pledges. Replacing this with being centrist on NATO and being seen as better at management of country than Tories.
The kind of mass membership under Corbyn years was ditched
Then along comes this and Labour leadership can't deal with it.
.
What he regards as Corbyn liberal pacifists plus those of Muslim backgrounds suddenly re appeared.
This wasn't part of the script.
Second part of Mason article is terrible.
He's doing exactly what he complains Starmer did over the Ten pledges treating the Muslim voters and liberal pacifists part of coalition that makes up Labour voters with barely disguised contempt.
Praising the leadership of Germany for threatening people with deportation over this.
Second part isn't denying the first section. It looks to me he wants a Labour government which would crack down hard on any protest like this in future
Comes across as authoritarian to me. And quite unpleasant.
Like Starmer it comes across that he does not want certain kinds of people to have a say in the body politic
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
I was just saying that if the powers that be are only going to tolerate a conditional ceasefire, ie upon release of hostages, then it's unlikely to expect Hamas to concede their only leverage.
I've no idea how strong Hamas are or what their supply lines look like but I agree that currently Israel are the aggressor, and then some. This is a course of action they freely chose. It didn't need to be this way.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
It seemed odd that Israel's intelligence agencies didn't seem to know about Hamas preparations for their assault on Israel on 7th October.
But the Hamas assault has rather conveniently allowed Netanyahu to play the war leader again and to invade Gaza and attempt to completely destroy Hamas or even to go further.
Is it possible Israel's intelligence did know about Hamas preparations but underestimated its force, and that people like Netanyahu kept schtum because he wanted the excuse to invade?
I don't know the workings of Israel government agencies, would it even be possible to keep a secret like that?
But the Hamas assault has rather conveniently allowed Netanyahu to play the war leader again and to invade Gaza and attempt to completely destroy Hamas or even to go further.
Is it possible Israel's intelligence did know about Hamas preparations but underestimated its force, and that people like Netanyahu kept schtum because he wanted the excuse to invade?
I don't know the workings of Israel government agencies, would it even be possible to keep a secret like that?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Had a look and more from Paul Mason,
www.theneweuropean.co.uk
He rejects the term Settler Colonialism. Which he says gives justification to those who want to destroy Israel state.
( what he is doing here is opposing a One State solution. Using term destroy to conflate it with anti semitic desire to destroy the Israeli Jews. Which it is not. A One State solution would not be Zionist. It would be were Israeli Jews and Palestinians could live together as equals)
Has nothing to say about West Bank where illegal settlements have made a two state solution less viable.
Blames rise of Hamas on Gaza being dependent on welfare handouts.
( disagree with this. Hamas was initially elected. Due to the corruption of Fatah and disillusionment with the Oslo accords. More recently Hamas on West Bank have been seen to be taking on Israel. Settler violence in West Bank among other issues was causing anger. Unlike the toothless PA run by Fatah. So no rise of Hamas was not to down to "handouts".)
He does not mention elections to any new authority in Palestine. Only referring to PA. He seems to think Hamas will be completely removed and then Gaza rebuilt to come under PA control as part on two state solution.
Economic growth will magically remove Hamas from the picture. Forgets that Hamas came from Muslim Brotherhood. Who in Palestine built up reputation for providing welfare for less well off.
Does he imagine this will disappear?
Once the fighting stops, the world must empower an independent Palestine
Palestine needs a swift route to economic sovereignty and statehood
www.theneweuropean.co.uk
He rejects the term Settler Colonialism. Which he says gives justification to those who want to destroy Israel state.
( what he is doing here is opposing a One State solution. Using term destroy to conflate it with anti semitic desire to destroy the Israeli Jews. Which it is not. A One State solution would not be Zionist. It would be were Israeli Jews and Palestinians could live together as equals)
Has nothing to say about West Bank where illegal settlements have made a two state solution less viable.
Blames rise of Hamas on Gaza being dependent on welfare handouts.
( disagree with this. Hamas was initially elected. Due to the corruption of Fatah and disillusionment with the Oslo accords. More recently Hamas on West Bank have been seen to be taking on Israel. Settler violence in West Bank among other issues was causing anger. Unlike the toothless PA run by Fatah. So no rise of Hamas was not to down to "handouts".)
He does not mention elections to any new authority in Palestine. Only referring to PA. He seems to think Hamas will be completely removed and then Gaza rebuilt to come under PA control as part on two state solution.
Economic growth will magically remove Hamas from the picture. Forgets that Hamas came from Muslim Brotherhood. Who in Palestine built up reputation for providing welfare for less well off.
Does he imagine this will disappear?
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