Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[PTK]

I've been boycotting Israeli products for decades.


eta: Canada is not a state.

The UK, the Republic of France, the USA, the Russian Federation, and Canada are all examples of states.

 

[PTK]

it is, y'know. As well as being a nation.

Cananda consists of at least two nations.

 

[belboid]

Cananda consists of at least two nations.

hmm, I'm trying to remember the Spart position...you're Quebecois rather than First Nationalists iirr

 

[spring-peeper]

hmm, I'm trying to remember the Spart position...you're Quebecois rather than First Nationalists iirr

hmm - would not work if you are one of the First Nations from British Columbia.....

I think that they were referring to Quebec being a founding nation.

 

[Raheem]

Canada may be a state, but I think it is also still legally a British dominion.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I thought it had been shown he was always a bit Laurie Penny-esque inventing informants even back in the day but it wasn't obvious as he was writing more plausibly overall. /more derail

Yup he was a fraud.

 

[Aladdin]

Biden now telling Israel that occupation of Gaza would not be a good idea

Cant see Netanyahu listening to Biden.

 

[zahir]

Israeli leaders are ignoring our calls for a ceasefire. You shouldn’t

We are being held hostage by politicians who have no plan and only know how to bomb. We need the world to step in — now.

www.972mag.com

I have attended the few small protests in Tel Aviv in recent weeks calling for a ceasefire. We leftist activists are a tiny minority in our society, and we are currently having to choose our words carefully. We are scared for our own safety amid the crackdown on dissent within Israel since Hamas’ October 7 massacres, which is forcing us to tone down the visibility of our rage. If we are completely silenced, who will be left to protest for an end to the war and the release of the hostages? During the speeches by the hostages’ families, many have stated in no uncertain terms that their calls are being shunted aside to allow the Israeli army to continue its aggression in Gaza. If our government is not even listening to them, who will listen to us?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Anyone heard if the Israelis have discovered a command and control centre underneath the hospital yet?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Yup he was a fraud.

He became one, wasnt always so eg his Northern Ireland coverage

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Anyone heard if the Israelis have discovered a command and control centre underneath the hospital yet?

They are just taking delivery of the stage props…

 

[littlebabyjesus]

They've discovered the square root of fuck all. What they have displayed so far they could easily have planted themselves. No command centre, no tunnels after more than a day of looking.

more than 24 hours after Israel’s raid started, the Israeli army has not shown evidence of either Hamas-run tunnels or a military command centre under the hospital.

What has Israel ‘found’ in Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital?

Hamas are sneaky, mind. They're supervillains. They've disguised their command centre as a working hospital, with the commanders posing as doctors and the troops posing as patients. Don't Be Fooled. That child isn't really a child, and that man in a wheelchair is just hiding his missing leg.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Biden now telling Israel that occupation of Gaza would not be a good idea

Cant see Netanyahu listening to Biden.

I can: he will interpret it as ethnically cleansing all Gaza

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Anyone heard if the Israelis have discovered a command and control centre underneath the hospital yet?

Of course they have. Early next February.

 

[Gramsci]

My MP Helen Hayes abstained - though she was shown on TV speaking. No idea what she said.

Here is what she posted on twitter

I'm confused.

She is in shadow cabinet. I had heard she was going to resign to vote for amendment.

She seems to have said she supports ceasefire but in end didn't vote for amendment.

In her speech she went on about the large numbers of constituents who contacted her wanting her to support ceasefire.

She also said in her speech that the support of ceasefire was a majority view in public, aid agencies and religious leaders.

So what was her problem in voting for it?

Heard she abstained

This was a whipped vote. Thanks Starmer

 

[ska invita]

theyre taking it all

Israel drops leaflets warning people to flee southern Gaza towns

Flyer campaign raises fears war could spread to areas IDF previously said were safe

www.theguardian.com

 

[Karl Masks]

Anyone know the wording of the snp amendment

 

[tim]

Yes, we havelots of other stuff planned, next issue 60% done

It's only five years since the last issue came out, so we should be waiting expectantly for it to pop through the letter box sometime in 2026.

 

[Whagwan]

Here is what she posted on twitter

I'm confused.

She is in shadow cabinet. I had heard she was going to resign to vote for amendment.

She seems to have said she supports ceasefire but in end didn't vote for amendment.

In her speech she went on about the large numbers of constituents who contacted her wanting her to support ceasefire.

She also said in her speech that the support of ceasefire was a majority view in public, aid agencies and religious leaders.

So what was her problem in voting for it?

Heard she abstained

This was a whipped vote. Thanks Starmer

 

[Idris2002]

cut and paste from twitter, re: current conditions inside al-shifa hospital

Spoiler

Catastrophe unfolding now at al-Shifa hospital:

I summarize comments of hospital director Dr. Muhammad Abu Salmiya, speaking to Al Jazeera Arabic about 30 minutes ago:There are about 7,000 people under total siege inside al-Shifa compound, including 650 injured people, 45 dialysis patients and 36 premature babies.A few hours ago one dialysis patient died and 4 are at imminent risk of death because no power for dialysis machines.

Three premature babies died in recent days. Two injured persons died in recent hours due to lack of treatment.There is no water, fuel or electricity. Israel broke the main water line into the hospital. There is no purified water to make the special formula for the babies, so they are using ordinary water and some have become sick with diarrhea, infections, fever.There is no food. Children are starving and distressed. There is no medicine and the wounds of injured people are becoming horribly infected, some with maggots.

Hospital administrators tried to send a delegation to the occupation forces to ask for food, fuel, medicine and safe evacuation of the sick and injured but the Israelis refused to to talk to them.The hospital is besieged from all sides by tanks and bulldozers. The bulldozers are destroying areas around the compound, but no one can see clearly what they are doing. Anyone who tries to move between hospital buildings is shot at by snipers or drones. There are hundreds of soldiers in the hospital compound searching all over and causing severe damage to hospital premises and equipment.

In the 48 hours the occupation forces have been inside the hospital or on its grounds not a single shot has been fired at them. No one can leave the hospital or enter it. The situation is disastrous not just for people in Shifa but for anyone in Gaza City who is injured or becomes ill, because no one can reach the hospital and the hospital can't do anything for them anyway. Anyone who has a heart attack or a stroke at home will die.Dr. Abu Salmiya says "We hold the world responsible" for what he calls a genocide. "We are waiting for slow death."


Last edited3:46 PM · Nov 16, 2023
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As I read that, I found myself reciting the Hail Mary. . .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's mad, isn't it? A purely symbolic gesture really, one that was always going to be defeated by most Tories actually voting against the idea anyway.

Starmer is useless on every conceivable level. If the government is chaotic evil, Starmer is just useless evil.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Anyone know the wording of the snp amendment

It was very simple, I believe:

The Scottish National Party’s (SNP) amendment to the King’s Speech sought to call on the government to “join with the international community in urgently pressing all parties to agree to an immediate ceasefire.”

Who the fuck votes against, or abstains from voting for, that?

 

[teqniq]

It was very simple, I believe:



Who the fuck votes against, or abstains from voting for, that?

Complete scumbags who claim as their excuse that the SNP were playing party politics with this amendment.

Labour: SNP playing 'Punch and Judy politics' with Gaza ceasefire vote

Scottish Labour's deputy leader Jackie Baillie accused the SNP of 'game-playing' on the Israel-Hamas war.

news.stv.tv

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Complete scumbags who claim as their excuse that the SNP were playing party politics with this amendment.

Labour: SNP playing 'Punch and Judy politics' with Gaza ceasefire vote

Scottish Labour's deputy leader Jackie Baillie accused the SNP of 'game-playing' on the Israel-Hamas war.

news.stv.tv

Wow. You can't ask for a ceasefire until you have a deal where the hostages are released? So they basically think Israel's collective punishment of Palestinians is justified by the fact that Hamas are holding hostages. That's the only logical conclusion to draw from that statement.

Wankers.

 

[CH1]

Here is what she posted on twitter

I'm confused.

She is in shadow cabinet. I had heard she was going to resign to vote for amendment.

She seems to have said she supports ceasefire but in end didn't vote for amendment.

In her speech she went on about the large numbers of constituents who contacted her wanting her to support ceasefire.

She also said in her speech that the support of ceasefire was a majority view in public, aid agencies and religious leaders.

So what was her problem in voting for it?

Heard she abstained

This was a whipped vote. Thanks Starmer

Baroness Chakrabti was asked about this on the Daily Politics today.
Well not about Helen Hayes - but about Labour MPs voting for or not voting for a ceasefire.
She said "It's just tactics" - saying that the SNP introduced the motion to expose splits in the Labour Party.
I'm sure that is right - but are we playing some sort of Glass Bead Game here - or protecting human lives?

 

[Mezzer]

It was very simple, I believe:



Who the fuck votes against, or abstains from voting for, that?

These ridiculous semantics have thoroughly put me off supporting Labour in a way I've not felt since the Iraq war. I desperately want the Tories out, but how can I put my cross in the box and support Starmer? I'd previously not understood folks that don't vote, but fucking hell, what a pitiful shower we have to choose from.

 

[teqniq]

He does not mince his words here when describing Smotrich and Ben-Gvir:

 

[teqniq]

 

[Karl Masks]

a conditional ceasefire like this seems highly partisan. I don't know whether Hamas would exploit or abuse a ceasefire, but given the vengefeul nature of the IDF and bourgesioise opinion, it would do them no favours.

Hamas would likely see that demand as them conceding any leverage they have, although at this point the hostages (if any have survived the bombing), will be the only living things in Gaza

 

[Larry O'Hara]

It was very simple, I believe:



Who the fuck votes against, or abstains from voting for, that?

Those complicit in war crimes: all 500 or so