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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

This from the Guardian article
"Amer Abu Awash, a member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force, was asked about the connection between hospitals in Gaza and the “metro”, Hamas’s extensive tunnel network. A handcuffed Awash replied: “Most of them are hidden in the hospitals. [At] Shifa [hospital], for example, there are underground levels … Shifa is not small, it is a big place that can be used to hide things.

Abu Awash was then asked by the interrogator about why Hamas was using medical institutions such as hospitals and clinics, to which he answered, “[so] you won’t strike them.”
 
YouSir said:
Anyone know when these ceasefire vote is tonight? Not that it makes a world of difference but interested to see who stands up to Starmer.
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It all depends I think... Going to head down after work... Supposedly labour whipped to abstain.
Anyone seen video footage of people down there?
 
toblerone3 said:
This from the Guardian article
"Amer Abu Awash, a member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force, was asked about the connection between hospitals in Gaza and the “metro”, Hamas’s extensive tunnel network. A handcuffed Awash replied: “Most of them are hidden in the hospitals. [At] Shifa [hospital], for example, there are underground levels … Shifa is not small, it is a big place that can be used to hide things.

Abu Awash was then asked by the interrogator about why Hamas was using medical institutions such as hospitals and clinics, to which he answered, “[so] you won’t strike them.”
Click to expand...
But what do you think?
 
toblerone3 said:
This from the Guardian article
"Amer Abu Awash, a member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force, was asked about the connection between hospitals in Gaza and the “metro”, Hamas’s extensive tunnel network. A handcuffed Awash replied: “Most of them are hidden in the hospitals. [At] Shifa [hospital], for example, there are underground levels … Shifa is not small, it is a big place that can be used to hide things.

Abu Awash was then asked by the interrogator about why Hamas was using medical institutions such as hospitals and clinics, to which he answered, “[so] you won’t strike them.”
Click to expand...
In video released by the IDF. What credibility do you attribute to videos released by the IDF?
 
toblerone3 said:
This from the Guardian article
"Amer Abu Awash, a member of Hamas’s elite Nukhba force, was asked about the connection between hospitals in Gaza and the “metro”, Hamas’s extensive tunnel network. A handcuffed Awash replied: “Most of them are hidden in the hospitals. [At] Shifa [hospital], for example, there are underground levels … Shifa is not small, it is a big place that can be used to hide things.

Abu Awash was then asked by the interrogator about why Hamas was using medical institutions such as hospitals and clinics, to which he answered, “[so] you won’t strike them.”
Click to expand...

Not going well then is it?
 
littlebabyjesus said:
In video released by the IDF. What credibility do you attribute to videos released by the IDF?
Click to expand...

There is alternative view cited in the article:
"Ezzat el-Reshiq, a Hamas official, denied allegations that the group was using the Shifa hospital as a shield for its underground military infrastructure, and said the claims have “no basis in truth”.

What credibility do you attribute to that?
 
toblerone3 said:
There is alternative view cited in the article:
"Ezzat el-Reshiq, a Hamas official, denied allegations that the group was using the Shifa hospital as a shield for its underground military infrastructure, and said the claims have “no basis in truth”.

What credibility do you attribute to that?
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Not a lot. But I attribute a good amount of credibility to the various medical staff who have stated over the weeks that they have seen no evidence of a Hamas headquarters in the hospital facilities they were working in.

Now you answer my question.
 
Interesting piece on wider Arab public reaction, noting the civil, non-violent nature of much popular protest and little appetite for condoning hamas terror either: https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/...public-response-to-israel-hamas-war-pub-90893
The trend toward renouncing violence in the mainstream Arab public space and the Arab street has been on the rise. Data from the Arab Barometer, a Princeton University–based public opinion surveying project, documents a decrease in popular acceptance of violence and its use for internal or external purposes. In recent years, an overwhelming majority of respondents— including those from Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Tunisia, and Libya—have stated their rejection of the use of force or violence for political causes. Additionally, Arab Barometer surveys have documented that the sheer majority of Arabs—on average over 90 percent— disapproves of extremist organizations and condemns their acts of terror. Although Hamas and other Palestinian groups are predominantly seen in the Arab world as resistance movements, their violence against Israeli civilians has been largely condemned. A clear preference for peace between Israelis and Palestinians on the basis of the two-state solution has been on the rise.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/10/13/arab-perspectives-on-middle-east-crisis-pub-90774
But this support for nonviolence can be fragile, especially if protesters’ demands aren’t addressed.
Click to expand...
 
YouSir said:
Anyone know when these ceasefire vote is tonight? Not that it makes a world of difference but interested to see who stands up to Starmer.
Click to expand...
Voting now

(actually, that's on the labour amendment, the SNP one is now due up in ten mins, 19.25ish)
 
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There you have it. It's antisemitic to distrust the Israeli government's version of, well, anything, despite the fact that they are proven liars.

And then straight into the false dichotomy. 'You don't believe Israel, well that means you believe Hamas'

The CIA line is kind of funny though. My God You Don't Believe the CIA???? Are you a Commie or something?
 
It would appear that Canada has had enough of giving Israel carte blanche wrt the onslaught in Palestine.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has called for Israel to stop “killing babies,” earning a furious response from Israeli counterpart Benjamin Netanyahu.

Trudeau said on Tuesday that the “killing of women, of children, of babies” in the besieged Gaza Strip must end. Netanyahu pushed back, insisting that Hamas is responsible for civilian deaths as Israeli forces continue to batter the enclave.

“I urge the government of Israel to exercise maximum restraint,” Trudeau said in his sharpest criticism of Israel since the war on Gaza broke out more than five weeks ago. “The world is watching, on TV, on social media – we’re hearing the testimonies of doctors, family members, survivors, kids who have lost their parents.

“The world is witnessing this killing of women, of children, of babies. This has to stop,” he told a news conference in the western province of British Columbia.

In a post on X directed at Trudeau, early on Wednesday, Netanyahu said: “It is not Israel that is deliberately targeting civilians but Hamas that beheaded, burned and massacred civilians in the worst horrors perpetrated on Jews since the Holocaust.”

“The forces of civilization must back Israel in defeating Hamas barbarism,” Netanyahu continued.

Canada has maintained that Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas after the Palestinian group attacked southern Israel on October 7, killing 1,200 people.

But it has also expressed increasing concern over the mounting death toll in the battered and besieged enclave, where more than 11,200 Palestinians have been killed by Israel since the conflict started.
AD

“The price of justice cannot be the continued suffering of all Palestinian civilians,” Trudeau said on Tuesday. “All wars have rules. All innocent life has equal worth. Israeli and Palestinian.”


www.aljazeera.com

Canadian PM tells Israel to end ‘killing of babies’

Israel’s Netanyahu lashes out after Justin Trudeau urged ‘restraint’ in Gaza.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
Very short thread by Aric Toler of Bellincat on what the IDF found at Al-Shifa hospital. Short because not much was found. Distinct lack of tunnels as well:



Here Evan Hill uses alleged, claims, and unclear more than once:

 
JimW said:
I thought it had been shown he was always a bit Laurie Penny-esque inventing informants even back in the day but it wasn't obvious as he was writing more plausibly overall. /more derail
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Yes I’ve since looked and found he in the end was an Assad apologist/confabulator. A great pity. No more heroes any more (apart from Kendall/Harvey/Ball of course..)
 
teqniq said:
Very short thread by Aric Toler of Bellincat on what the IDF found at Al-Shifa hospital. Short because not much was found. Distinct lack of tunnels as well:



Here Evan Hill uses alleged, claims, and unclear more than once:

Click to expand...


Great reply on there -

LOL they arrested and kicked out all journalists. Spent 14 hours to end up with this?? THE ULTIMATE CENTRAL COMMAND OF HAMAS? I've seen more firepower in a single American home.
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elbows said:
I didnt post it to have a go at him in particular, just to point out the realism framing and assocaited double-standards.

Bowen values his reputation but he still operates within a BBC foreign affairs framework (which also values its reputation as per the form of propaganda this country has specialised in for around 100 years).

Anyway in this case the cold lense of realism was supposed to be what I was sighing about, rather than its related propaganda specifically.
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I recall Bowen explaining how to disable a tank soon after Russian tanks rolled into the rest of Ukraine last year. That seemed a liitle biased.
 
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