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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

elbows said:
This sort of tragedy gets more attention and causes more unease within sections of the UK establishment than others:

www.bbc.co.uk

UK accused of 'whitewash' after Chevening scholar feared killed in Gaza

Dr Maisara Al Rayyes's family is searching for him under a building destroyed in an Israeli strike.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
(background "The stated objective of the scheme is to build a network of friends of the UK, who will be future leaders in their countries" Chevening Scholarship - Wikipedia )
 
elbows said:
This sort of tragedy gets more attention and causes more unease within sections of the UK establishment than others:

www.bbc.co.uk

UK accused of 'whitewash' after Chevening scholar feared killed in Gaza

Dr Maisara Al Rayyes's family is searching for him under a building destroyed in an Israeli strike.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
I thought that this part of the article is interesting:

"It is also understood "staff counsellors" in the Foreign Office have been collating internal concerns raised about the government's position on the Israel-Hamas war, and briefing senior officials on their contents.
These have included claims the government has shown a permissive approach to Israel "breaching international humanitarian law" given the unprecedented scale of the civilian death toll in Gaza, and that this could damage wider foreign policy, for example, when it comes to highlighting breaches of the global rules-based order by Russia in Ukraine."
 
My MP Helen Hayes has sent me an "update" on her position .She is in the shadow cabinet.
will continue to call for an immediate, durable and sustained humanitarian truce, the release of all hostages by Hamas, the protection of civilians and access for humanitarian aid including food, medicine, water and fuel into Gaza, and the instigation of a new internationally brokered peace process.
Click to expand...

Her previous email was :

Thank you again for writing to me. I can assure you that I will continue to urge the government to act to address the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, take all possible steps to protect civilians in both Gaza and Israel from the conflict, facilitate a cessation in the violence and re-start a meaningful peace process.
Click to expand...

The rest of her email was same as before.

It's the last paragraph that has changed.

Looks to me she is calling for a ceasefire (truce) and trying to do it in way that isn't going against Starmer.

However unlike Steve Reed for example she is not saying that a ceasefire will enable Hamas.

Looks to me she wants a ceasefire now.

I wonder how many other MPs / Cllrs are using this tortuous form of wording.

Not going all out to criticise leader but nevertheless quietly saying they don't agree with Starmer


 
elbows said:
This sort of tragedy gets more attention and causes more unease within sections of the UK establishment than others:

www.bbc.co.uk

UK accused of 'whitewash' after Chevening scholar feared killed in Gaza

Dr Maisara Al Rayyes's family is searching for him under a building destroyed in an Israeli strike.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

Not that we would ever find out, but that may have been why they killed him - there are a lot of that sort of people (locally prominent people such as teachers, engineers, journalists, academics, administrators, shopkeepers, medics etc) getting their homes bombed in this campaign.
 
agricola said:
Not that we would ever find out, but that may have been why they killed him - there are a lot of that sort of people (locally prominent people such as teachers, engineers, journalists, academics, administrators, shopkeepers, medics etc) getting their homes bombed in this campaign.
Click to expand...
You never know, but you can be fairly certain sometimes.

Those disgusting fucking pigs.
 
johnwesley said:
Interesting article in the NYT saying that Israel is facing an existential threat like no other in its history with the worst leader ever in history.

I Have Never Been to This Israel Before​



And for no reason this popped up in my YouTube feed from the 1960 movie Exodus - that saccharine version of history with Arabs airbrushed out must be how a lot of Israel's and Jews actually feel.

Click to expand...


Years ago I had I bumped into someone who was an acquaintance in London. Asked him how he was. He said he had moved to Israel.

His exact words where " Its great there. I've got a house in a village the Arabs ran away from"

I didn't know what to say to that. After all these years never forgot that encounter.

A Londoner and he had become an Israeli believing this kind of stuff.
 
elbows said:
This sort of tragedy gets more attention and causes more unease within sections of the UK establishment than others:

www.bbc.co.uk

UK accused of 'whitewash' after Chevening scholar feared killed in Gaza

Dr Maisara Al Rayyes's family is searching for him under a building destroyed in an Israeli strike.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...

If he had died in Ukraine due to Russian bombing I doubt it would have been phrased that way in twitter

He died due to Israeli government ordering bombing of civilians.

 
This is from an interview with Friedrich Merz, the leader of the CDU . They are the largest party in Germany


1699567578589.png



www.nzz.ch

Friedrich Merz: «Wir haben genug antisemitische junge Männer im Land»

Der CDU-Chef spricht im Interview über Solidarität mit Israel, Pro-Hamas-Demos in deutschen Städten, hohe Sozialleistungen für Migranten, mögliche Neuwahlen und seinen Respekt vor dem Kanzleramt.
www.nzz.ch www.nzz.ch
 
I don't know if this has been posted already "Israel Could Lose".

its goal is to estrange Israel from its international partners and turn it into the pariah that Hamas believes it to be.

Hamas need not be strong to follow this strategy; it merely needs to be steadfast. Rather than relying on enough strength to defeat Israel, it seeks instead to use Israel’s far greater strength to defeat Israel. Israel’s strength allows the country to kill Palestinian civilians, destroy Palestinian infrastructure, and defy global calls for restraint. All those things advance Hamas’s war aims.

www.csis.org

Israel Could Lose

In a new commentary, Jon Alterman explains that while Israel has the most formidable fighting force in the region, it needs to prioritize winning back global support, invigorating the Palestinian Authority, and splitting Hamas off from the population.
www.csis.org www.csis.org
 
johnwesley said:
I don't know if this has been posted already "Israel Could Lose".

its goal is to estrange Israel from its international partners and turn it into the pariah that Hamas believes it to be.

Hamas need not be strong to follow this strategy; it merely needs to be steadfast. Rather than relying on enough strength to defeat Israel, it seeks instead to use Israel’s far greater strength to defeat Israel. Israel’s strength allows the country to kill Palestinian civilians, destroy Palestinian infrastructure, and defy global calls for restraint. All those things advance Hamas’s war aims.

www.csis.org

Israel Could Lose

In a new commentary, Jon Alterman explains that while Israel has the most formidable fighting force in the region, it needs to prioritize winning back global support, invigorating the Palestinian Authority, and splitting Hamas off from the population.
www.csis.org www.csis.org
Click to expand...
Utter bullshit. Gaza gets razed to the ground and Israel becomes a priah. For how long? How many dead Palestinians is Israel being kicked off the Eurovision song contest worth?
No one who could change things is prepared to.
Even if the UK demanded a cease fire. Would Israel even listen till it thinks it got enough vengeance?
 
johnwesley said:
I don't know if this has been posted already "Israel Could Lose".

its goal is to estrange Israel from its international partners and turn it into the pariah that Hamas believes it to be.

Hamas need not be strong to follow this strategy; it merely needs to be steadfast. Rather than relying on enough strength to defeat Israel, it seeks instead to use Israel’s far greater strength to defeat Israel. Israel’s strength allows the country to kill Palestinian civilians, destroy Palestinian infrastructure, and defy global calls for restraint. All those things advance Hamas’s war aims.

www.csis.org

Israel Could Lose

In a new commentary, Jon Alterman explains that while Israel has the most formidable fighting force in the region, it needs to prioritize winning back global support, invigorating the Palestinian Authority, and splitting Hamas off from the population.
www.csis.org www.csis.org
Click to expand...
yeah i dont see this either. key bit for me is the projection that:

"Arab states move strongly away from normalization, the Global South aligns strongly with the Palestinian cause, Europe recoils at the Israeli army’s excesses..........[well that may all be broadly true]......... and an American debate erupts over Israel, destroying the bipartisan support Israel has enjoyed here since the early 1970s."

Cant see that. As long as the US military-state wants Israel to be its proxy base in the region it will support it in real terms - everything else it says and does is diplomacy. Nothing that has happened so far is a threat to that desire and need for the US to continue to use Israel for its own ends. Public opinion in the US is broadly irrelevant and manageable. It would take a massive parliamentary/presidential shift to the left for that to ever change. I see no sign of it.

The rest of the article about what Israel should and shouldnt do is all very circumstantial and presumptious IMO. I dont see Gaza getting rebuilt by neighbouring countries any time soon if ever for example.
 
I emailed Keir Starmer, and receiced a reply from his office, but it does not address my points and is not worth posting.
 
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