Aladdin
Well-Known Member
No ..
The US actively contributed to the hell these children have experienced. So has the UK.
And probably quite a few EU countries that are pro Israel.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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The US actively contributed to the hell these children have experienced. So has the UK.
And probably quite a few EU countries that are pro Israel.
teqniq
DisMembered
What is says on the tin. 
substack.com
“A City of Ghosts” — Returning to Rafah to Find Death and Destruction
Over 80 Palestinians have been killed across Gaza since the ceasefire took hold, 49 of them in Rafah alone
substack.com
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Sorry this isn't how international law works.
The killing of thousands of Palestinian children is down to the State of Israel.
Israel is allowed to defend itself withing International Humanitarian Law.
Problem is it hasn't.
Its also up in international court for plausible case of Genocide. Whatever Hamas did a response that is Genocidal is against international law.
Also this is a situation of asymmetrical power.
Palestinians have tried and still try non violent protest. Or trying to use the international law or even the legal system in Israel.
None of this has worked.
Israel state is illegally occupying West Bank. The separation wall is illegal.
It meets non violent action by Palestinians with IDF shooting people.
The list could go on.
And to add Hamas aren't in power in West Bank. But Israel state/ settlers / IDF have upped oppression of Palestinians in West Bank. Even though they had nothing to do with Hamas attack on Israel
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Aladdin
Well-Known Member
I know all this.. Israel is committing Genocide. Ireland is one of only 3 countries to actually try to stop them.... and Hamas has held on to Israeli hostages for how long now? Could this have ended last May? If Hamas had returned the hostages would Israel have stopped? Who knows. But right now Hamas has held onto hostages for nearly 16 months..KNOWING the destruction that Israel would inflict on ordinary people.
The children in Gaza are paying the price for adult hatred.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Hamas accepted ceasefire agreement months ago. It was Netanyahu and some of his far right cabinet who refused a ceasefire agreement. Present ceasefire agreement isn't that different to what was put months back.
Also a ceasefire could have happened if Biden had got on phone to Netanyahu and said stop or I'm cutting off supplies. He didn't. Allowed all red lines he set to be crossed- Rafah?
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Children in Gaza are paying the price of Genocidal actions of Netanyahu and his cabinet. This has been , as many said, a live streamed Genocide. Not secret. The perpetrators and those politicians who made statements encouraging it are there plain to see.
I'm talking here of going beyond usual adult hatred to Genocidal attack on a people as a group.
Which Israel is capable of as its well supplied by Western nations.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
No..Israel killed Hamas political leadership.. that's why the ceasefire talks ended last year.
21 November2023. : A deal brokered by the US, Qatar and Egypt sees Hamas release 105 of the hostages in return for some 240 Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails during a week-long ceasefire. Israel and Hamas blame each other for causing the collapse of the truce.
28 December: Shuttle diplomacy on a new ceasefire and hostage release deal starts.
2024
31 May: US President Joe Biden outlines an Israeli proposal for a three-phase ceasefire in return for the release of Israeli hostages. It forms the basis of the deal that is agreed upon eight months later.
10 June: The United Nations Security Council passes a resolution supporting the ceasefire plan.
31 July: The talks are suspended following Israel's assassination of Hamas political leader and chief negotiator Ismail Haniyeh in the Iranian capital, Tehran. Discussions resume two weeks later, initially in the absence of Hamas.
17 October: Israeli forces kill Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar in southern Gaza. Netanyahu calls it the "beginning of the end" of the war.
9 November: After months without a breakthrough, Qatar suspends its efforts as mediator in the negotiations. It says Israel and Hamas need to shift their positions. Both sides blame each other for the impasse.
20 November: The US vetoes a draft UN Security Council resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire, saying it "abandoned" the necessity for there to be "a linkage between a ceasefire and the release of hostages".
27 November: Israel agrees a ceasefire with Lebanon to end a 13-month conflict with the armed group Hezbollah, an ally of Hamas, which was triggered by the Gaza war. It reignites hope for a deal in Gaza, with Biden saying he will make another push with regional powers.
2 December: US President-elect Donald Trump says there will be "all hell to pay" if the hostages still held in Gaza are not released by the time he returns to the White House on 20 January 2025.
with the armed group Hezbollah, an ally of Hamas, which was triggered by the Gaza war. It reignites hope for a deal in Gaza, with Biden saying he will make another push with regional powers.
2 December: US President-elect Donald Trump says there will be "all hell to pay" if the hostages still held in Gaza are not released by the time he returns to the White House on 20 January 2025.
17 December: A senior Palestinian official says the indirect talks are in a "decisive and final phase", while Israeli Defence Minister Israel Katz says an agreement is closer than ever.
2025
13 January: Biden and Netanyahu speak by phone about negotiations during Biden's final week in office, after US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said an agreement was "very close" and that he hoped to "get it over the line" before Trump takes office.
15 January: Qatar's prime minister says Israel and Hamas agreed a Gaza ceasefire and hostage release deal, and that it will take effect on 19 January. Biden says it will "halt the fighting in Gaza, surge much needed-humanitarian assistance to Palestinian civilians, and reunite the hostages with their families".
17 January: Israel's cabinet approves the deal, following hours of discussion and despite two far-right ministers voting against it, allowing the agreement to come into effect on 19 January.
19 January: The ceasefire comes into effect at 11:15 local time (09:15 GMT), following a delay of several hours from the scheduled start time after Israel said Hamas had not handed over the names of the first 33 hostages due to be release
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ I AGREE with you.
You don't have to convince me of Netanyahu's depravity.
Israel has committed a heinous genocide killing 48000 Gazans. Many of whom are innocent people. They've taken land..they've ridden roughshod over Palestine for decades. They've taken innocent people as prisoners with little cause. They've denied them legal representation. They've treated Palestinians like dirt for decades. And yes..Palestinians have a right to their land and a right to live in peace.
AND...
I am also saying that Hamas do not get to walk away looking like fucking heroes after holding on to those hostages for 16 months all the while Israel blowing up all of Gaza
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Is the time line wrong then?
No.
The killing of Hamas leaders was a reason to walk away from talks. I don't doubt that Netanyahu knew that would happen ...
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Rafah one of Biden red lines that wasn't.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Well this is a different take on it to what I thought you were saying in post 17104
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
I've repeatedly throughout this entire thread from day one supported Palestine. And I was shot down early on for decrying what Israel was doing. I was called antisemitic by someone here because I was so adamant Israel and Netanyahu were wrong. So I don't need convincing.
But I am not ok with Hamas... ok?
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Yes..I was actually trying to quote AlJazeera too just now.. but you have said it here. . RAFAH invasion was a cause for Hamas to pull out of talks.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Neither am I.
Though I wonder what Palestinians are supposed to do to get justice if armed actions are ruled out.
What I am saying is what Israel government did in response was not proportionate, not within IHL and now possible case of Genocide. Given that Israel state is supposed to be western type democracy.
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
I agree with you.
Israel has never ever been proportionate. They have "gotten away" with it in the past. But they cannot get away with this. I hope Netanyahu and others will be arrested and face justice. Hopefully very soon. But he is a slippery snake. And that's an insult to snakes.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Was watching Makdisi brother last night. Had their cousin on who is academic in US specialising in International law.
One issue that came up was how International law was developed by Western states largely.
This makes it problematic for non western groups taking up arms to fight colonialism and/ or occupation.
There was push in 60s and 70s by third world to get changes.
It's actually quite difficult for non state actors fighting occupation to have legitimacy under international law.
These wars are also asymmetrical.
What the Makdisi brothers and cousin were saying is that particularly after 9/11 it got worse. With whatever Palestinians did in face of Israeli aggression ruled out of order.
With ADL in US for example lobbying government to get anti terror laws extended to cover the student protests.
On a different tack its what happened in Syria. Largely peaceful uprising was so brutally attacked by Assad regime that eventually people had to either leave or take up arms. With consequent loss of revolts early ideals.
Like wise with Israel Non violent action against a state that tramples on any opposition if it can devalues non violence as credible way forward.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The ceasefire won’t end Israel’s violence: 9 key issues
After 15 months of Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian people – on land that Israel is illegally occupying – Israel and Hamas have agreed a ceasefire and captive release deal, but so much still hangs in the balance for Palestinians.
From War on Want
These are the underlying issues which need to be addressed
HeAthen
Nadgers.
Sadly with the return of the orange one to the Whitehouse I suspect that is more unlikely than it was before, which is an utter travesty.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
And it is the year of the snake
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