Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[A380]

Looks like it:

They won't risk crews to save a building that's already lost and has no one left alive in it.The water going on it will be fixed ground monitors and robots on the aerial ladder platforms. Basically wait till it burns out.

Fire services' approach to risk assessment is:-

Fire fighters will take some risk to save saveable life,

Fire fighters will take little risk to save saveable property

Firefighters will not take any risk at all to try to save lives or property that are already lost.

Once it's out Local Authority civil engineers and LFB will make the structure safe then the cops will go in to do the body recovery with police and fire doing the investigation together.

 

[2hats]

Guess it won't be done until every combustible thing has gone up. I did wonder at those random hoses spraying ineffectually (note, I know literally nothing about firefighting).

Some might have been water curtains to curtail smoke for reasons of visibility and to protect main fire fighting equipment from thermal load.

 

[where to]

Literally not enough housing stock to do so, social housing already creaking at the seams

they will have to find a way - new units, private rentals, whatever. they will also have to reuse the site for the highest possible standard of housing, council housing.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

The fucking tower is still on fire.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

they will have to find a way - new units, private rentals, whatever. they will also have to reuse the site for the highest possible standard of housing, council housing.

The thing is that they won't have to. They will just put these people on the list and they will resell this site, once the block has been demolished, to private cunt-hutch developers, like the rest of the area.

 

[YouSir]

they will have to find a way - new units, private rentals, whatever. they will also have to reuse the site for the highest possible standard of housing, council housing.

Depressingly I'd expect something closer to insufficient compensation, a torturous application process for it, lots of arguing to get it and the land being either sold off or built on by a 'partner' developer who provide a few percent's worth of overpriced 'affordable' housing while old residents spend years trying to get back in any way at all.

 

[scifisam]

they will have to find a way - new units, private rentals, whatever. they will also have to reuse the site for the highest possible standard of housing, council housing.

Really? That'd be nice, but it's not going to happen, is it?

 

[agricola]

Literally not enough housing stock to do so, social housing already creaking at the seams

There are loads of new developments going up in and around central London at present, one or two of them should be compulsorily purchased to cope with this unexpected and unprecedented demand.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I'm not quite sure how you can possibly make a post-war tower block safe for investigation/body recovery when it's still burning internally after nearly 24 hours since it started. It'd be so unstable by now.

 

[equationgirl]

trashpony there's a number of pre-fire pictures on Google maps, if that helps?

 

[teqniq]

The absence of the council on the street as hundreds of families were homeless was concerning, said Judith Bakeman, a Labour councillor at Kensington and Chelsea. “There’s been so many cuts, there aren’t enough people to deal with this.”

Referring to Notting Hill Methodist church’s Rev Mike Long, she said: “Mike has been running this centre giving people food and water all day and not a single person from the council has been here.”

As we spoke, a volunteer from the Harrow Club and Latimer AP Academy came to tell the councillor she had 138 beds available. He said that no one official had been to the centre and he didn’t know what to do with that information.

London fire: Twelve confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

 

[where to]

The thing is that they won't have to. They will just put these people on the list and they will resell this site, once the block has been demolished, to private cunt-hutch developers, like the rest of the area.

after what's happened, the gravity of it, i'd have ve thought that would be politically unthinkable. i don't live in London though, sounds like i'm wildly out of touch.

 

[Cloo]

a 3rd no fucking ghoulish property enterprise will to repair and refit the block whilst offering apparent social fucking housing which is only affordable to people earning over 50 grand a fucking year

*shakes fist at sky*

Only fifty grand? In Kensington?

Btw, I'll bet Kensington has plenty of empty homes whose owners have never set foot in them and have no plans to. Not going to watch my clock for when they start offering them to homeless families to recover in.

 

[YouSir]

London fire: Twelve confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

To be honest I can understand the council struggling to deal with this, not just due to cuts but also the scale of it - no one's going to be trained to rehouse so many people immediately, or even to give them temporary care (clothes, food, a roof etc). Not seen any mention of anyone from any more central authority coming in either though and they should have the ability and the planning in place to be of use. Hope people are getting what support they need but also half an eye out for those 'lessons to be learned' that'll emerge in coming weeks and, as ever, be roundly ignored.

 

[YouSir]

after what's happened, the gravity of it, i'd have ve thought that would be politically unthinkable. i don't live in London though, sounds like i'm wildly out of touch.

Wildly optimistic perhaps. The concession to the gravity of it will be a few speeches down the line about all the new 'affordable' units there are shouted over people pointing out that they can't afford them. If that, might just say everyone's moved on and nobody wants to live there any more. The ways to weasel out of any responsibility to the victims of this are endless if you're a big enough cunt.

 

[Ax^]

Only fifty grand? In Kensington?

Btw, I'll bet Kensington has plenty of empty homes whose owners have never set foot in them and have no plans to. Not going to watch my clock for when they start offering them to homeless families to recover in.

bit of an badly worded post, but really if its structurally sounds could see some shit cunt of a property developer move in and turn it into a regeneration block for second home owners, investors and landlords whilst offering about 5 percent of the block in some sort of illusion of social house

 

[Mr.Bishie]

but really if its structurally sounds could see some shit cunt of a property developer move in and turn it into a regeneration block

It'll be far from structurally sound after 24 hours, & still it glows like charcoal. I bet the gentrifiers are rubbing their hands together, job done.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Worse - she said "If there are any lessons to be learned they will be, and action will be taken," leaving open the possibility of doing fuck all. If there are lessons to be learned, FFS. And 8pm till she said anything.

Today cartoonist Ted Rall reposted this 2012 strip, saying it “showcases the boilerplate response after shootings...Used by Trump this AM and UPS this PM”.



Works pretty well for May today as well.

 

[brogdale]

Woman interviewed on Newsnight did a brilliant truth to power job on Maitlis.
Top work, madam.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

Some might have been water curtains to curtail smoke for reasons of visibility and to protect main fire fighting equipment from thermal load.

Thanks for this explanation.

On C4 News earlier, a fire brigade rep was asked whether a helicopter could have dropped water on the roof. He made the point that a helicopter would only fan the flames.

There's always a reason why the fire brigade do or don't do something and it's always surprising how little overlap there is between the common sense solution and effective fire fighting.

 

[RD2003]

Today cartoonist Ted Rall reposted this 2012 strip, saying it “showcases the boilerplate response after shootings...Used by Trump this AM and UPS this PM”.

View attachment 109362

Works pretty well for May today as well.

This is why I feel cynical about the official responses to the recent jihadist atrocities. The speeches are all on a tragedy template for whoever happens to be in power. The crowds responding in the expected way have more than a whiff of cold war eastern Europe about them, and I can't help but doubt how much of a reflection of the current mood of the country they are.

 

[8den]

1stly I've been off Urban all day and was dreading reading this thread to find out someone from this small, sometimes rough, but deeply caring web community had been lost.

Newsnight is reporting that the new cladding that was put on recently was of a type that was less fire retardant that some others, and have been associated with several fires elsewhere.

 

[mather]

Really awful news, terrible!

My hearts go out to all who have suffered from this and lost loved ones.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

I woke up raging. I am going to bed raging.

I am so so sorry.

I wish I could do/could have done something.

 

[Plumdaff]

Literally not enough housing stock to do so, social housing already creaking at the seams

RBKC is a rich borough and the government could pledge support if it wanted to.

 

[trashpony]

trashpony there's a number of pre-fire pictures on Google maps, if that helps?

Oh the pictures are still there. It's just the articles that have been nixed. I also suspect it's a combination of lawyers and PRs

 

[Buckaroo]

Cheap cladding, cheap platitudes, thoughts and prayers.

 

[scifisam]

To be honest I can understand the council struggling to deal with this, not just due to cuts but also the scale of it - no one's going to be trained to rehouse so many people immediately, or even to give them temporary care (clothes, food, a roof etc). Not seen any mention of anyone from any more central authority coming in either though and they should have the ability and the planning in place to be of use. Hope people are getting what support they need but also half an eye out for those 'lessons to be learned' that'll emerge in coming weeks and, as ever, be roundly ignored.

Yes. Hundreds of suddenly homeless, distraught, penniless people would be impossible for even the best council to deal with, and this is a terrible council. They will definitely not be able to immediately rehouse people - they have nowhere to put them. Other councils will have to step in but that means displacing the residents.

 

[Ted Striker]

TBH lessons were learned after the Kings Cross fire, and the Underground is much safer as a result.

Kings Cross is the most appropriate comparison I can think of. A real generation life-changer. The problem is, with Kings X, we look back and think "how stupid, we let people smoke down on the tube". I fear there will be similar depressingly obvious lessons learned. Ridiculously so in 2017.

Fuck this has got to me

 

[DaveCinzano]

Newsnight is reporting that the new cladding that was put on recently was of a type that was less fire retardant that some others, and have been associated with several fires elsewhere.

There's an interesting Twitter thread by Newsnight's policy editor about the cladding issue: