Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

Time perhaps for the angelic upstarts to reform and release a new single, the murder of grenfell tower

 

[teqniq]

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Jesus I suppose you have seen some more of her tweets? Prime tolling territory imo.

 

[Pickman's model]

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There is no need for la robinson to live anywhere

 

[Pickman's model]

Jesus I suppose you have seen some more of her tweets? Prime tolling territory imo.

There is an element of fun in tolling absent from robinson's cruel trolling.

 

[bi0boy]

Jesus I suppose you have seen some more of her tweets? Prime tolling territory imo.

It's a troll account operated by a bloke from Scotland

 

[existentialist]

The actual state of this; FFS.

Looking at her Twitter feed, I think it's supposed to be an attempt to be funny.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

@AP BREAKING: London fire commissioner says authorities 'genuinely don't know' how many victims died in building blaze.

 

[MAD-T-REX]

Edit: Point already made.

 

[brogdale]

Looking at her Twitter feed, I think it's supposed to be an attempt to be funny.

Failed.

 

[Pickman's model]

This may sound grim, and I am not defending the council, but there probably aren't hundreds of surviving families to accommodate.

Not from 125 flats anyway, suspect 44 may be the major part of surviving families

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Can you have a kitchen fire alarm, then a separate fire alarm in a hallway? I think that's how it works in my flat. Certainly the one in the kitchen looks pretty conventional, while the one in the hall looks quite industrial and linked in. I remember as a student we had them in each room. Every fucking night, I mean it's like they thought their no smoking signs would work or something.

Standard practice is to fit heat detectors in kitchens rather than smoke detectors.

 

[Kaka Tim]

David lammy is very angry

This is the richest borough in our country treating its citizens in this way and we should call it what it is. It is corporate manslaughter. That’s what it is. And there should be arrests made, frankly. It is an outrage.

Many of use across the country have been caught up in an election knocking on housing estate doors, travelling up to the top floors of tower blocks, and we know as politicians that the conditions in this country are unacceptable.

We build buildings in the 70s. Those 70s buildings, many of them should be demolished. They have not got easy fire escapes. They have got no sprinklers. It is totally, totally unacceptable in Britain that this is allowed to happen and that people lose their lives in this way. People should be held to account.

London fire: 12 confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

I think he has a very strong point. this should be treated as a crime and the contractors, relevant council officials and building management should be arrested before any hard drives get binned and documents shredded.

 

[Who PhD]

David lammy is very angry



London fire: 12 confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

I think he has a very strong point. this should be treated as a crime and the contractors, relevant council officials and building management should be arrested before any hard drives get binned and documents shredded.

And that's good, but it's only a start. It cannot be allowed, should that ever happen, for the rest of the tories (and labour) to get away with this. Their policies have caused this, especially the Tories who sat on housing reports, cut services, and ran the council, and accelarated gentrification. If a few fatcats in council get punished it will only be at the expense of the culpability of the rest.

 

[Pickman's model]

David lammy is very angry



London fire: 12 confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

I think he has a very strong point. this should be treated as a crime and the contractors, relevant council officials and building management should be arrested before any hard drives get binned and documents shredded.

if the shredders weren't working overtime yesterday i would be somewhat bemused.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Not sure whether this has been posted, but it sure does explain appliances failing - not the quality of appliances posted about earlier in the thread:

GRENFELL TOWER – FROM BAD TO WORSE

Based on the above, Lammy is right, corporate manslaughter.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Government criticised for abandoning requirement for new schools to install fire sprinklers

and from yesterday, note the quote:

 

[brogdale]

Government criticised for abandoning requirement for new schools to install fire sprinklers

and from yesterday, note the quote:

Blood on their hands; the lot of them.
Cunts.

 

[not-bono-ever]

scum.

What is a life worth vs the impact on profitability ?

 

[bimble]

Good article here
A Very Political Tragedy

 

[Cid]

Not sure whether this has been posted, but it sure does explain appliances failing - not the quality of appliances posted about earlier in the thread:

GRENFELL TOWER – FROM BAD TO WORSE

Based on the above, Lammy is right, corporate manslaughter.

That's interesting. I was about to post that I thought, if it was provable at all, criminal liability would probably fall on the subcontractor that installed it. But that raises further questions of negligence...

 

[Brainaddict]

David lammy is very angry



London fire: 12 confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

I think he has a very strong point. this should be treated as a crime and the contractors, relevant council officials and building management should be arrested before any hard drives get binned and documents shredded.

He may be right that people should be arrested, but tbh it's still a bit early to tell . For instance, if the cladding turns out to be what spread the fire, that doesn't mean the council is culpable, as it appears to conform to existing standards. The standards may be wrong, or contractors may have substituted substandard materials.

A lot of it is quieter stuff that needs to be done too - it won't make for dramatic scenes, but the TMO clearly needs to be restructured to be more responsive to residents. No-one will get arrested for a bad organisational structure, but this kind of change is as important as courtroom scenes imo.

 

[Plumdaff]

David lammy is very angry

He may be right about demolitions but most tenants will be extremely wary of that because they assume, rightly, that any new developments will have minimal to no social housing and they will never return.

 

[YouSir]

Does anyone know if there's a properly reliable place for donations yet? Anything that'll go direct to residents?

 

[Cid]

Does anyone know if there's a properly reliable place for donations yet? Anything that'll go direct to residents?

Justgiving seem to have set up a page specifically for it.

 

[bi0boy]

Justgiving seem to have set up a page specifically for it.

They take their fee of course, they profit a lot from disasters like this.

 

[bimble]

in time there'll probably be need for money towards class action massive legal fees.

 

[Cid]

They take their fee of course, they profit a lot from disasters like this.

True.

 

[butchersapron]

I spent the day watching the news about this fire in utter horror. This evening I went to a 'meet the contractors' meeting about major works to the block I live in. Where I learned that, after undertaking some remedial safety works and commissioning a structural survey, the local ALMO has decided to put out a contract which essentially puts the onus on the chosen contractor to determine the scope of what works are necessary. Jesus fucking wept.

As a political response to what's happened I don't think this piece is at all adequate. (Even just taking things in terms of where we actually are today as opposed to where we might prefer to be). Underinvestment, the systematic attack on social housing, regeneration as an opportunity for corruption and 'aspirational' enrichment are all very real things, but the problems exposed by this fire aren't limited to them. Just as much of an issue are the various 'creative' attempts - some of them 'well meaning' - to address the problems they have caused. The consequences of arms length property management and cyclical administrative 'reorganization', in terms of the loss of basic knowledge about the buildings being managed, and the loss of a functional relationship with the hierarchies of different categories of tenants. The 'light touch' management of everything from major works contracts to fire regulation. In short virtually all fundamental aspects of how social housing is actually managed today. If that isn't also addressed then simply reversing the decline in investment in social housing, and treating tenants as 'first' rather than 'second' class ('first class' what ? clients ? 'stakeholders' ? mugs ?), won't make the level of catastrophic failure we've seen today any less likely.

It's pretty good for a first quick attempt at getting what you're suggesting needs to be talked about into public dialogue.

 

[editor]

Standard practice is to fit heat detectors in kitchens rather than smoke detectors.

Lambeth fitted smoke and heat detectors recently in my block. They kept firing off randomly, day and night, so most people unplugged them.

 

[Pickman's model]

in time there'll probably be need for money towards class action massive legal fees.

yeh? based on what? what's rather more likely, i suggest, is that there will be a test case and, assuming that wins, a rather larger but still not class action for damages. this may well be on a 'no win no fee' basis. less money needed.