Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[YouSir]

She could have done something useful. First order of business would be to sack Gavin Barwell with immediate effect.

Or to arrange funding for immediate temporary accommodation, or start working to open up housing stock in the borough for residents, or guarantee funding for a rebuild, or alter legislation to allow councils to do it themselves, or a million other things that the useless fuck will completely avoid by saying 'lessons will be learned'.

 

[Pickman's model]

Or to arrange funding for immediate temporary accommodation, or start working to open up housing stock in the borough for residents, or guarantee funding for a rebuild, or alter legislation to allow councils to do it themselves, or a million other things that the useless fuck will completely avoid by saying 'lessons will be learned'.

she couldn't learn a times table

 

[Kaka Tim]

Dont agree with Lammy wrt to demolishing tower blocs. they work fine when they are properly maintained. I lived in one for 8 years - and i was very happy.
but police definitely do need to be seizing documents and hard drives like now.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

She could have done something useful. First order of business would be to sack Gavin Barwell with immediate effect.

And the 72 still serving MP's who are private fucking landlords, get rid of the fucking lot of em. Parasitic cunts!

 

[Barking_Mad]

View attachment 109388
strange picture to have chosen

Nice of them to return some of our money.

 

[scifisam]

How about donating a palace.

Yeah, I think they might have a few spare bedrooms.

Anyone know if residents from neighbouring buildings have been allowed to return home yet?

 

[Wilf]

View attachment 109390
a massive self-inflicted fail. she could have shown she had some sort of people skills: but no, she's shown again she doesn't give a fuck about the hoi polloi

Presume she didn't bring her chief of staff with her.

 

[YouSir]

Yeah, I think they might have a few spare bedrooms.

Anyone know if residents from neighbouring buildings have been allowed to return home yet?

No idea but can't be safe until a proper check has been carried out can it? Know nothing about engineering but having the burnt out wreck of a massive building within collapsing distance of other homes can't be good.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Presume she didn't bring her chief of staff with her.

He's busy shopping for really strong, fuck-off huge magnets.

 

[likesfish]

the housing management team probably didn't mean to turn the block into a death trap but Tory's you never can tell .
The chances are they certainly didn't have the skill or experience not to have the construction companys take the piss lawyers who work for councils vs commercial lawyers no chance really add cost cutting to the bare minimum and you've got a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I would be quote happy in this exceptional case, to adopt ex LibDem prophet, Tim Farrons, scripture orientated outlook.

An eye for an eye, starting with every one of those Tory landlords and working up the chain of command from there

 

[Cid]

Dont agree with Lammy wrt to demolishing tower blocs. they work fine when they are properly maintained. I lived in one for 8 years - and i was very happy.
but police definitely do need to be seizing documents and hard drives like now.

They're getting old now (well, the older ones are), and were constructed to different standards. I'd say there at least needs to be a major review of existing tower blocks.

 

[Teaboy]

I have no doubt that the council, housing assoc and contractors bear a great deal of responsibility for this, and should swing for it: however, when this is revealed, we need to ensure the blame doesn’t remain with these low hanging fruits, as while they may have cut corners in ways which resulted in a massive loss of life, they did so in a regulatory and funding environment that encourages cutting corners, and only generally punishes bad practice after rare and catastrophic failures such as this.

I'm pleased to note that thus far the fingers are pointing firmly towards the government. Make sure they stay pointing that way, even once the more local failures start to be revealed.

I think this is exactly spot on.

There is clearly going to be a lot of finger pointing going on the next few weeks and months and the various different companies / organisations involved will be used as a shield by the government. Whatever the cause of the fire is deemed to be the wider picture of this has come to be should absolutely be the key issue.

 

[2hats]

No idea but can't be safe until a proper check has been carried out can it? Know nothing about engineering but having the burnt out wreck of a massive building within collapsing distance of other homes can't be good.

If the core is deemed stable (enough) then they will probably be installing (or about to install) props, gradually from lower floors upwards, to reinforce and redistribute load. Even so, material on the periphery will be at risk of breaking away.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Dont agree with Lammy wrt to demolishing tower blocs. they work fine when they are properly maintained. I lived in one for 8 years - and i was very happy.
but police definitely do need to be seizing documents and hard drives like now.

Tower blocks work fine but there is a tendency to a) not maintain them and b) cut costs when building them along with c) dump and forget the tenants of the blocks and slowly make living conditions unpleasant before flogging the land for a mint or kicking them all out when law and order breaks down as a result (which is basically a) but, eh)


Fire escapes and sprinkler systems are really needed in these larger blocks though, and not stuffing them with combustible cladding...

 

[EastEnder]

Interesting exert from the Metro: Number of people confirmed dead in Grenfell Tower fire rises to 17

Rydon, the firm that carried out the refurbishment work, said the project ‘met all required building regulations’, in its latest statement following the fire.

But a line stating the project had met all ‘fire regulation and health and safety standards’, which was included in an earlier release, had disappeared.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The surviving residents of The Grenfell Tower horror should be rehoused immediately.

A government that spends £375m refurbing Buckingham Palace can afford it.

A government that claims to be capable of conducting Brexit negotiations can organise it.

Every hour this does not happen underlines how incapable they are and how little they care in the starkest human terms.

WorkingClassLivesMatter

 

[Teaboy]

Dont agree with Lammy wrt to demolishing tower blocs. they work fine when they are properly maintained. I lived in one for 8 years - and i was very happy.
but police definitely do need to be seizing documents and hard drives like now.

I'm not keen on them tbh. I written before on this site that they are a fire hazard and the best you can do is mitigate that. I suppose its theoretically possible to add fire additional fire escapes but then you'd have to cover one side of the building in metal and that's assuming the substrate of the building could even take the weight if it.

From an energy point of view they are crap as well, they piss energy. They really are not fit for purpose any more. I've said all along that they should be knocked down and replaced and the existing tenants all rehoused in the new block.

 

[Wilf]

Here's a statement of the obvious: over the next weeks and indeed years as this develops through reviews and inquiries, the tories are going to try and get it running down separate tracks. One will be whether 'lessons were learned', previous disasters at home and abroad, regulations and, to some extent, management systems (without ever getting into the political project that lead to arms length management and the like). The other which they will do their damnedest to keep separate will be social cleansing, the housing of the poor, the relationship to the surrounding affluent housing - and the fucking contempt the people in this block were met with. They'll hang their heads for a day or two on that, but even within a week they'll pushing out the propaganda on the modernisation of the housing stock, how much as been spent etc.

Usually, governments are very good at managing these things, making sure heads only roll down the foodchain. It's our job to stop the cunts doing it this time. This is going to be massive.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'm trying to remember if it was May as hom/sec who made the comment 'living in London is a privilege not a right'

searched for that with her name attatched and got nowhere but 'some results removed blah blah'. Maybe it was some other tory. It sounds like the sort of shit rees-mogg would come out with...

 

[Wilf]

The surviving residents of The Grenfell Tower horror should be rehoused immediately.

A government that spends £375m refurbing Buckingham Palace can afford it.

A government that claims to be capable of conducting Brexit negotiations can organise it.

Every hour this does not happen underlines how incapable they are and how little they care in the starkest human terms.

WorkingClassLivesMatter

They are also planning on spending £7bn on the palace of Westminster. £7bn on their own fucking office.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Its was westmister councillor glanz IIRC, in relation to the provision of social housing DotCommunist

eta


24housing » News » Social housing in central London ‘a privilege, not a right’
is this is ?

 

[butchersapron]

Here's a statement of the obvious: over the next weeks and indeed years as this develops through reviews and inquiries, the tories are going to try and get it running down separate tracks. One will be whether 'lessons were learned', previous disasters at home and abroad, regulations and, to some extent, management systems (without ever getting into the political project that lead to arms length management and the like). The other which they will do their damnedest to keep separate will be social cleansing, the housing of the poor, the relationship to the surrounding affluent housing - and the fucking contempt the people in this block were met with. They'll hang their heads for a day or two on that, but even within a week they'll pushing out the propaganda on the modernisation of the housing stock, how much as been spent etc.

Usually, governments are very good at managing these things, making sure heads only roll down the foodchain. It's our job to stop the cunts doing it this time. This is going to be massive.

This the one thing, the thing that w/c londoners can all be on board with - it has to be. Ian Bone was right onto something with the poor doors stuff.

 

[bimble]

I think this is exactly spot on.

There is clearly going to be a lot of finger pointing going on the next few weeks and months and the various different companies / organisations involved will be used as a shield by the government. Whatever the cause of the fire is deemed to be the wider picture of this has come to be should absolutely be the key issue.

I noticed this morning that the daily mail has already started with an effort to place the blame for this at the door of the man who owned the company that installed the cladding. They went with pictures of his house in surrey, him and his wife on exotic holidays etc.
But the commentators, even there, aren't buying that attempt to distract from the bigger picture.

 

[not-bono-ever]

,

 

[DotCommunist]

,

cheers. I thought it had come from someone further up the foodchain, but this looks like it.

 

[not-bono-ever]

it is from the very bottom of the foodchain.

 

[DotCommunist]

it is from the very bottom of the foodchain.

root and branch

 

[Teaboy]

Fire escapes and sprinkler systems are really needed in these larger blocks though, and not stuffing them with combustible cladding...

Sprinklers yes. The cladding is considered non-combustible. Whilst it was the cheaper core of the panel it still had a flame retardant property in it. I've been having a good dig on the website and the lowest fire rated product I can find is still class b which is pretty good and absolutely should not be contributing to the spread of flames. I wrote extensively yesterday about the potential of the cavity behind the cladding to create a chimney and I still think this is going to be a huge contributory factor. I'm also getting the sinking feeling that the testing and regulatory system is not as good as is the industry thinks it is.

I was thinking a lot about this last night, trying to get my head around what has happened from a construction perspective. The more I think about it the more I think something was going on internally, there has to have been. There are several reports of exposed gas risers internally and boilers mounted in stupid places. Something was fueling this fire, the cladding may well have been one cause of spread but there is something else happening.

The pictures are astonishing, how can every floor both internally and externally be going up with such ferocity in such a short period of time? When you look at other fires where the cladding has been a contributory factor the damage is nowhere near as bad. The building has gone up like its made of tinder, everything has burnt apart from the original concrete structure.

 

[killer b]

Sprinklers yes. The cladding is considered non-combustible. Whilst it was the cheaper core of the panel it still had a flame retardant property in it. I've been having a good dig on the website and the lowest fire rated product I can find is still class b which is pretty good and absolutely should not be contributing to the spread of flames. I wrote extensively yesterday about the potential of the cavity behind the cladding to create a chimney and I still think this is going to be a huge contributory factor. I'm also getting the sinking feeling that the testing and regulatory system is not as good as is the industry thinks it is.

I was thinking a lot about this last night, trying to get my head around what has happened from a construction perspective. The more I think about it the more I think something was going on internally, there has to have been. There are several reports of exposed gas risers internally and boilers mounted in stupid places. Something was fueling this fire, the cladding may well have been one cause of spread but there is something else happening.

The pictures are astonishing, how can every floor both internally and externally be going up with such ferocity in such a short period of time? When you look at other fires where the cladding has been a contributory factor the damage is nowhere near as bad. The building has gone up like its made of tinder, everything has burnt apart from the original concrete structure.

Sure I read something about a burst gas main complicating things earlier?