Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[SpookyFrank]

[UPDATED]

Crowdfunders currently running:

JustGiving

• Help families of Grenfell Tower (starter: Haley Yearwood) - £225,180
• Help the residents of the burned down Grenfell Tower (Karolina Hanusova) - £201,956
• Help as many people as possible in Grenfell Tower (Anass Bourdaka) - £28,397

GoFundMe

• Grenfell Block Latimer Fire Appeal (Annoor Trust) - £63,032
• West London Tower Fire Victims (Shameela Islam-Zulfiqar) - £48,725
• We're raising money for the families and individuals affected by the Grenfell Tower fire (Family Action) - £39,468
• Grenfell Tower Fire Fund (Eartha Pond) - £15,661
• GrenFell Tower Fire Fund (Charmaine Hayden) - £7,355
• Weʼre raising £5,000 to help those affected by the Grenfell Tower fire (Get West London) - £5,325
• Weʼre raising £10,000 to help the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire (Will Hurst) - £4,132
• Support Grenfell Tower Fire Victims (Simon Harris) - £3,713

Others

• Grenfell Tower Emergency Relief (Westway Trust) Amazon WishList

There may be - in fact, probably are - others too.

This is wonderful to see but also infuriating. Those responsible should be paying. Through the fucking nose. For the rest of their days.

 

[1927]

Slightly off topic, but relevant, question.

i don't understand the position of mayor of London, on basis that London is made up of several councils. How does this work in reality? Apologies in advance for my ignorance.

 

[butchersapron]

Justice for Grenfell Tower

“This Government, and many before it, have neglected council housing, and disregarded its tenants as if they were second class. Nationally and locally, politicians have subjected public housing to decades of systematic disinvestment – leaving properties in a state of disrepair, and open to privatisation. Regeneration, when it has come, has been for the benefit of developers and buy-to-let landlords, who profit from luxury flats built in place of affordable homes. Across London, regeneration has meant evictions, poor quality building work, and has left tenants with little influence over the future of their estates.

“The chronic underinvestment in council housing and contempt for tenants must stop. It is an outrage that in 21st Britain, authorities cannot be trusted to provide safe housing, and that people in council properties cannot put children safely to bed at night.

 

[bi0boy]

Slightly off topic, but relevant, question.

i don't understand the position of mayor of London, on basis that London is made up of several councils. How does this work in reality? Apologies in advance for my ignorance.

Mayor of London - Powers and Functions - Wikipedia

 

[peterkro]

One consequence of no communal alarm I didn't think of, the lifts would still be working.I just heard a guy who's father took the lift from ground floor to fourth at 1.30am when the building was well alight.In a normal building the lifts go to the ground floor when the alarm goes off, opens the doors and stay that way.Otherwise you're in a steel box which could stop at any moment and the steel box is suspended in a chimney.

 

[handy1]

And what was Blair but a Tory in disguise?

TBF he was not in disguise. He was quite blatant about being a tory. This is fuck all to the blood already on his hands.

 

[1927]

TBF he was not in disguise. He was quite blatant about being a tory. This is fuck all to the blood already on his hands.

In what way?

I suspect the fall out from this will highlight failing by government/local government stretching back years. They are all complicit!

 

[butchersapron]

Did you kill Grenfell towers

 

[1927]

Mayor of London - Powers and Functions - Wikipedia

That specifically states that the Mayor has total responsibility for fire planning and local boroughs have zero! (With the exception of their responsibilities as landlords)

 

[handy1]

In what way?

I suspect the fall out from this will highlight failing by government/local government stretching back years. They are all complicit!

In what way was he not a tory? I agree that they are all complicit BTW.

 

[JTG]

It was actually the change of regulation in 2005 that did that. It passed responsibility for fire risk assessments from the fire service to controllers of premises.

Cheers for the detail. I well remember the FBU's battles with the Blair government

 

[Orang Utan]

Lots of empty mansions a few hundred yards to the south, but I doubt they would be appropriated for emergency use.

I used to pass this beautiful house on the way to work: Debenham House - Wikipedia
It's been vacant for years, all 20,000 square feet of it and has dozens of rooms. It's a mile south of Grenfell Tower. It makes my blood boil that it and thousands of other houses in London stand empty while hundreds of Grenfell residents (and countless other homeless Londoners)

 

[Wilf]

Good mate of mine works for LFS. He sent me this earlier. Spoiler tags cos I don't think everyone wants to read it.

Spoiler: Graphic

We had the fire investigation lady in the office before - she'd been doing an aerial survey of the building to spot any survivors and try and judge if it was safe to send teams back in.

She said there were dozens of bodies on the roof where people had tried to get away from the fire and been overcome by the smoke.
Those poor people.

RIP to them and all the rest who were killed.

 

[5t3IIa]

One consequence of no communal alarm I didn't think of, the lifts would still be working.I just heard a guy who's father took the lift from ground floor to fourth at 1.30am when the building was well alight.In a normal building the lifts go to the ground floor when the alarm goes off, opens the doors and stay that way.Otherwise you're in a steel box which could stop at any moment and the steel box is suspended in a chimney.

If that was Tiago's dad on c4 news he said his dad ran up the stairs.

 

[peterkro]

If that was Tiago's dad on c4 news he said his dad ran up the stairs.

I thought he said he got the lift to the fourth floor then ran up the stairs, presumably when the lift filled with smoke. I may have misheard.

 

[equationgirl]

There was a good article (independent I think?) that I read earlier that said if there were gaps between the cladding and insulation or other materials, and there is a fire behind the cladding panels, then the chimney effect may have come into play.

Another London disaster, the Kings Cross fire of 1987, led to the discovery of the trench effect during fires on steeply inclined surfaces. I am not a fire specialist but there may be some overlap between the two mechanisms, especially if flashover was involved.

 

[AverageJoe]

Is response time the only impact of cuts?

I agree with you that the cladding seems most likely to be the immediate cause. But that doesn't call into question all the other issues this tragedy has brought up. Residents have been expressing concerns about this building being a fire hazard for years. A local councillor who sits on the TMO's board claims that she faced attempts to remove her for raising their concerns. Four housing ministers including the Prime Minister's special adviser did nothing with a report that recommended higher safety standards after a similar incident eight years ago. Even factors with no direct relationship to this case,like the bill on private landlords that the Tories voted down, reflect where their priorities lie.

So we're agreed that it's not the fire services fault? They could have 1000 firefighters there in two minutes, but the fact that the pressure in the hoses can only up so high...

 

[5t3IIa]

I thought he said he got the lift to the fourth floor then ran up the stairs, presumably when the lift filled with smoke. I may have misheard.

Oh, yes you're right he did. I misread what you said, sorry. You were talking about - fire alarms go off = lifts put themselves at the ground floor and stay there. Or they should.

Ugh. This is so primally distressing. Those poor fucking people :'(

 

[Pickman's model]

Good mate of mine works for LFS. He sent me this earlier. Spoiler tags cos I don't think everyone wants to read it.

Spoiler: Graphic

We had the fire investigation lady in the office before - she'd been doing an aerial survey of the building to spot any survivors and try and judge if it was safe to send teams back in.

She said there were dozens of bodies on the roof where people had tried to get away from the fire and been overcome by the smoke.
Those poor people.

 

[equationgirl]

Mogden hope your mate is OK, awful, horrific thing to see

 

[malatesta32]

just how the fuck ...

Britain First Provoke Muslims Helping Grenfell Fire Families Outside East London Mosque | HuffPost UK

ghouls. just money grubbing ghouls.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Can't watch the Boris video due to shite 3G - did he really tell a member of the public to get stuffed?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Teresa May says "lessons will be learned".

Yuck.

 

[Orang Utan]

Can't watch the Boris video due to shite 3G - did he really tell a member of the public to get stuffed?

Think it was a member of the London Assembly

 

[not-bono-ever]

I am out drinking and am still furious. RIP to all who have suffered loss in this.Appalling waste of life

 

[equationgirl]

Teresa May says "lessons will be learned".

Yuck.

Well she can just fuck off some more.

They had several chances to learn already.

 

[1927]

In what way was he not a tory? I agree that they are all complicit BTW.

My, in what way , comment was referencing your comment that it had nothing to do with the blood already in his hands!

 

[DaveCinzano]

This is wonderful to see but also infuriating. Those responsible should be paying. Through the fucking nose. For the rest of their days.

Absolutely. But right now, there are hundreds of destitute, bereaved, traumatised people - and but for these spontaneous, autonomous acts, they would have nothing, be nowhere. And everyone knows this. No one will forget.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Good mate of mine works for LFS. He sent me this earlier. Spoiler tags cos I don't think everyone wants to read it.

Spoiler: Graphic

We had the fire investigation lady in the office before - she'd been doing an aerial survey of the building to spot any survivors and try and judge if it was safe to send teams back in.

She said there were dozens of bodies on the roof where people had tried to get away from the fire and been overcome by the smoke.
Those poor people.

Jesus fucking wept

 

[Ceej]

Think it was a member of the London Assembly

A Labour member of the London Assembly fire safety panel.

And if I hear one more Tory praising the emergency services after cutting their status pay and numbers I'm going to vomit....