Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[DaveCinzano]

It's astonishing, the number of incredibly conscious voices we are hearing out of this tragedy, this scandal, this violent crime - wisdom out of the mouths not of our ‘leaders’ or rulers, but ordinary people:

Daniel Renwick, 29, a youth worker at the nearby Harrow Club, said:

“The Grenfell Action Group are probably the strongest advocates for reform in this borough. Grenfell are tireless in trying to bring these issues to light and they said the only thing that would give this issue some recognition is a disaster like this.

“It’s sick, because it exposes just how fucking disgraceful this council is. People who don’t understand why the Tories got kicked out of this place [in last week’s election], this is why. The push back can’t be stopped now because how are people supposed to feel about this? It’s the shock doctrine, that’s what this is.”​

London fire: Twelve confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

 

[SpookyFrank]

Mayor Sadiq Khan is not a happy bunny at the moment, I think. All I am thinking is praying for the suffering of the souls including babies, children, women, and those who perished.

He's an intelligent man, he knows he's mayor of a corrupt cesspool of a city run as a playground for capital. He could have done something about this. He hasn't.

 

[phillm]

It's astonishing, the number of incredibly conscious voices we are hearing out of this tragedy, this scandal, this violent crime - wisdom out of the mouths not of our ‘leaders’ or rulers, but ordinary people:

Daniel Renwick, 29, a youth worker at the nearby Harrow Club, said:

“The Grenfell Action Group are probably the strongest advocates for reform in this borough. Grenfell are tireless in trying to bring these issues to light and they said the only thing that would give this issue some recognition is a disaster like this.

“It’s sick, because it exposes just how fucking disgraceful this council is. People who don’t understand why the Tories got kicked out of this place [in last week’s election], this is why. The push back can’t be stopped now because how are people supposed to feel about this? It’s the shock doctrine, that’s what this is.”​

London fire: Twelve confirmed dead but police expect further fatalities after tower block blaze – latest updates

Many hero and heroines and great people vox popping on the news. This is one of the first positive take-aways from this unfolding , god awful crime. Because that is what it is.

 

[cupid_stunt]

He's an intelligent man, he knows he's mayor of a corrupt cesspool of a city run as a playground for capital. He could have done something about this. He hasn't.

BIB - How?

He's only been in the job for just over a year.

 

[BemusedbyLife]

Anyone know how it works about finding new homes those made homeless by this? I imagine that Kensington is not exacly awash with cheap housing and that the council housing list is no doubt of ludicrous length. Do these people go straight to the top and have to be found homes pronto (thus pushing down those beneath them) or do they go on the list at the position they would normally join, ie families are priority, single peeps are no hopers.

 

[SpookyFrank]

BIB - How?

He's only been in the job for just over a year.

I don't know, but then I never asked to be made mayor of london. If I was him though, first order of business would be to sort out the planning loopholes that allow developers to bribe, lie or creatively account themselves out of their obligations to build social and affordable housing.

 

[Mation]

I don't know, but then I never asked to be made mayor of london. If I was him though, first order of business would be to sort out the planning loopholes that allow developers to bribe, lie or creatively account themselves out of their obligations to build social and affordable housing.

If you were him, you'd be a right wing shit who would do no such thing.

 

[phillm]

Anyone know how it works about finding new homes those made homeless by this? I imagine that Kensington is not exacly awash with cheap housing and that the council housing list is no doubt of ludicrous length. Do these people go straight to the top and have to be found homes pronto (thus pushing down those beneath them) or do they go on the list at the position they would normally join, ie families are priority, single peeps are no hopers.

There are tens of thousands new build apartments all over the city waiting for Chinese investors to bank their ill gotten gains. So that won't happen - more probably Hastings or some such like.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Anyone know how it works about finding new homes those made homeless by this? I imagine that Kensington is not exacly awash with cheap housing and that the council housing list is no doubt of ludicrous length. Do these people go straight to the top and have to be found homes pronto (thus pushing down those beneath them) or do they go on the list at the position they would normally join, ie families are priority, single peeps are no hopers.

Hopefully enough people will be watching this situation and asking these same questions that the council aren't able to do what London councils normally do, namely fucking everyone off with no alternative housing provided.

 

[DaveCinzano]

[UPDATED]

Crowdfunders currently running:

JustGiving

• Help families of Grenfell Tower (starter: Haley Yearwood) - £332,857
• Help the residents of the burned down Grenfell Tower (Karolina Hanusova) - £247,976
• We're raising money for the families and individuals affected by the Grenfell Tower fire (Family Action) - £55,580
• Help as many people as possible in Grenfell Tower (Anass Bourdaka) - £31,315
• Weʼre raising £5,000 to help those affected by the Grenfell Tower fire (Get West London) - £8,682
• Weʼre raising £10,000 to help the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire (Will Hurst) - £5,167
• Weʼre raising £10,000 to help the families & individuals impacted by the Grenfell Tower fire in London on with urgently required supplies (AMYA UK) - £1,075

GoFundMe

• Grenfell Block Latimer Fire Appeal (Annoor Trust) - £74,902
• West London Tower Fire Victims (Shameela Islam-Zulfiqar) - £61,742
• Grenfell Tower Fire Fund (Eartha Pond) - £20,646
• GrenFell Tower Fire Fund (Charmaine Hayden) - £8,876
• Support Grenfell Tower Fire Victims (Simon Harris) - £5,118

Others

• Grenfell Tower Emergency Relief (Westway Trust) Amazon WishList

There may be - in fact, probably are - others too.

 

[equationgirl]

This is making me weep buckets. Lots of people won't have been able to get out at all. Disabled people aren't usually supposed to be placed above a certain floor level in a tower block (think it might be fourth? Or it could just be my council's policy) but obviously if you become disabled later then you have to wait for a place to move to, and K&C is selling its nicer flats off when they become empty, because the govt's Housing and Planning Bill of last year forces them to, so there's nowhere left to rehouse people.

Those who did get out have probably had to leave their pets, their photo albums, all their possessions that had sentimental value - fuck, the poor people.

I really hope they figure out quickly what caused this and stop it happening elsewhere.



Up to five stories is rather different, though. Two staircases have the advantage of dividing up the residents between them and, if one becomes unusable through fire or somebody falling and a crush occurring, then there's still a way out. All of that is less crucial in a lower, smaller block. Also the chances of survival by jumping from a window are way higher.

When I had to get out of a block during a fire with thick black smoke, I had to walk down into the smoke because the fire was in the electrics cupboard at the bottom. Had there been a second staircase at the rear of the building it would have been a bit easier to get out.

My point was that all new build blocks of flats should have more than one staircase regardless of height of the block.

It's horrific that people have died. Many will have had no chance of escape

 

[eoin_k]

Can't disagree he's a cunt.

But, cuts to the fire service doesn't seem to have been an issue here, they arrived within 6 minutes of being called.[...]

Is response time the only impact of cuts?

I agree with you that the cladding seems most likely to be the immediate cause. But that doesn't call into question all the other issues this tragedy has brought up. Residents have been expressing concerns about this building being a fire hazard for years. A local councillor who sits on the TMO's board claims that she faced attempts to remove her for raising their concerns. Four housing ministers including the Prime Minister's special adviser did nothing with a report that recommended higher safety standards after a similar incident eight years ago. Even factors with no direct relationship to this case,like the bill on private landlords that the Tories voted down, reflect where their priorities lie.

 

[Orang Utan]

Anyone know how it works about finding new homes those made homeless by this? I imagine that Kensington is not exacly awash with cheap housing and that the council housing list is no doubt of ludicrous length. Do these people go straight to the top and have to be found homes pronto (thus pushing down those beneath them) or do they go on the list at the position they would normally join, ie families are priority, single peeps are no hopers.

Lots of empty mansions a few hundred yards to the south, but I doubt they would be appropriated for emergency use.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Is response time the only impact of cuts?

I agree with you that the cladding seems most likely to be the immediate cause. But that doesn't call into question all the other issues this tragedy has brought up. Residents have been expressing concerns about this building being a fire hazard for years. A local councillor who sits on the TMO's board claims that she faced attempts to remove her for raising their concerns. Four housing ministers including the Prime Minister's special adviser ignored a report that recommended higher safety standards after a similar incident eight years ago. Even factors with no direct relationship to this case,like the bill on private landlords that the Tories voted down, reflects where their priorities lie.

Totally agree.

But, trying to keep my emotions under control about all the contributing factors that could be involved here, I firmly believe the main focus needs to be on the issue, most likely the cladding, that allowed this fire to spread so fast.

Focus resources on that, to avoid something this major happening again.

Then move onto all the side issues, and the blame game.

 

[Dogsauce]

Absolutely no chance that any of the national papers will do one of those photo line-up pages of those who died in this tragedy, too poor and not the right heritage for them. Stuff like this usually shows up who matters and who doesn't.

 

[A380]

Cunt

So. May spent three years telling the police federation they were crying wolf over cuts and now Borris telling someone standing up against fire cuts to 'get stuffed' . Today is a day for grief .

 

[Pickman's model]

So. May spent three years telling the police federation they were crying wolf over cuts and now Borris telling someone standing up against fire cuts to 'get stuffed' . Today is a day for grief .

And tomorrow for anger?

 

[Mogden]

Good mate of mine works for LFS. He sent me this earlier. Spoiler tags cos I don't think everyone wants to read it.

Spoiler: Graphic

We had the fire investigation lady in the office before - she'd been doing an aerial survey of the building to spot any survivors and try and judge if it was safe to send teams back in.

She said there were dozens of bodies on the roof where people had tried to get away from the fire and been overcome by the smoke.
Those poor people.

 

[JTG]

Can't disagree he's a cunt.

But, cuts to the fire service doesn't seem to have been an issue here, they arrived within 6 minutes of being called.

The focus should be on what went wrong with this block, considering fires in blocks of flats happen all the time, they are normally contained, never has anything like this happened before in the UK, something seems to have gone very wrong with this block - and that seems to have more to do with the money spent on the cladding.

If that's proved to be the problem, action needs taking straight away on other blocks that have had this 'improvement' - with no expensive spared on resolving the risk that has been created.

I am so fucking angry about this.

Surely cuts to the fire service include cuts to the preventative responsibilities they have as well? It's not all about fighting fires, it's about inspections, advice, cutting the need for them to go out at all. In other words, would a properly funded service with responsibilities not shunted to less trustworthy bodies have played a part in preventing this?

 

[teqniq]

Cunt

Judging by how much that clip has been shared on social media I suspect he is already having cause to regret uttering those words.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Is response time the only impact of cuts?

I agree with you that the cladding seems most likely to be the immediate cause. But that doesn't call into question all the other issues this tragedy has brought up. Residents have been expressing concerns about this building being a fire hazard for years. A local councillor who sits on the TMO's board claims that she faced attempts to remove her for raising their concerns. Four housing ministers including the Prime Minister's special adviser did nothing with a report that recommended higher safety standards after a similar incident eight years ago. Even factors with no direct relationship to this case,like the bill on private landlords that the Tories voted down, reflect where their priorities lie.

And the general context of widespread underfunding of social housing for decades, with naked contempt for the residents. And, in that area, huge swathes of planned and underway redevelopment and gentrification (I live just down the road). People rightly draw the connection between all of these things.

 

[1927]

That the NCB took money from the public donations to the families to repair the heaps was just one of the elements of one of the great crimes of the 20th Century in Britain.

Harold Wilson ordered it!

 

[farmerbarleymow]

God that's awful Mogden

 

[scifisam]

Surely cuts to the fire service include cuts to the preventative responsibilities they have as well? It's not all about fighting fires, it's about inspections, advice, cutting the need for them to go out at all. In other words, would a properly funded service with responsibilities not shunted to less trustworthy bodies have played a part in preventing this?

Very good point.

I want Boris's head on a stick and his home given over to survivors. With this and the London Bridge thing him still being in his role shows how shit the Tories are.

 

[gawkrodger]

Don't you dare say the fatal Grenfell Tower fire is not 'political'

 

[gawkrodger]

I've just logged onto my facebook account and the sense of anger is palpable. Whole bunch of people who 'don't do politics' are livid and calling for the heads of Torys/landlords etc

 

[SpookyFrank]

I forgot Gavin Barwell had got a new job as May's adviser. Hopefully she'll be hauled over the coals for that decision as she has for so many others recently.

 

[1927]

Surely cuts to the fire service include cuts to the preventative responsibilities they have as well? It's not all about fighting fires, it's about inspections, advice, cutting the need for them to go out at all. In other words, would a properly funded service with responsibilities not shunted to less trustworthy bodies have played a part in preventing this?

It was actually the change of regulation in 2005 that did that. It passed responsibility for fire risk assessments from the fire service to controllers of premises.

 

[Mogden]

God that's awful Mogden

Horrific

 

[1927]

If this had happened 7 days earlier I think the result of GE would have been somewhat different.