Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[krink]

I got an email at work saying all government (and local government) buildings etc will have a minute's silence tomorrow. I don't know for certain this is all the govt's idea but if it is, i think it's an absolute piss take and part of a government pr exercise. you'd quite likely be labelled negatively to question this but i think it's actually quite sick if this is a government initiative rather than from the victims and their supporters. anyone know?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

It's asking why. The fire service advice was wrong on the night, but why was that, and who was to blame for the reasons why it was wrong? Not the fire service.

Perhaps their advice was based on an assumption that the cladding wasn't illegal.

I suspect the general aiming of blame at them could be a conscious strategy.

From the minute the horror started to unfold, highly paid people (I daresay from our money) had a job to cover arses regarding any elite responsibility. Given the woeful authority response, it's fair to assume that more time was spent on these concerns than those of the dead, homeless and traumatised untermensch.

 

[andysays]

I got an email at work saying all government (and local government) buildings etc will have a minute's silence tomorrow. I don't know for certain this is all the govt's idea but if it is, i think it's an absolute piss take and part of a government pr exercise. you'd quite likely be labelled negatively to question this but i think it's actually quite sick if this is a government initiative rather than from the victims and their supporters. anyone know?

Grenfell Tower lit green a year after fire

...And a minute's silence will be observed nationally at midday.

 

[Teaboy]

Another fire in another tower block.

Blaze breaks out in London tower block

Fortunately looks like its been contained through adequate firestopping and a sprinkler system. What could have been...

 

[ricbake]

Grenfell Tower lit green a year after fire

Lambeth bathed the Town Hall in green light in solidarity last night - must have cost £1000s

 

[andysays]

Lambeth bathed the Town Hall in green light in solidarity last night - must have cost £1000s

I suspect that gestures of solidarity like this are far easier and cheaper than ensuring this never happens again, and crucially, can be done without actually establishing who is responsible.

 

[existentialist]

I suspect that gestures of solidarity like this are far easier and cheaper than ensuring this never happens again, and crucially, can be done without actually establishing who is responsible.

Better yet, it offers an answer to the question "Who's responsible?". Which is "Don't you care about all those people who suffered - is it all about finding someone to blame for you?" <cynical >

 

[oryx]

Another fire in another tower block.

Blaze breaks out in London tower block

Fortunately looks like its been contained through adequate firestopping and a sprinkler system. What could have been...

What could have been, indeed. I assume it's a private block if it had a sprinkler system (there's a lot of new private blocks in that area).

 

[oryx]

Did anyone see the programme about the history of Grenfell Tower and the Lancaster West estate, and the surrounding area?

Very interesting in a 'Secret History of Our Streets' way. It focused largely on the history of class division within the area.

 

[Casual Observer]

What could have been, indeed. I assume it's a private block if it had a sprinkler system (there's a lot of new private blocks in that area).

This building looks like it was built after 2007, the year when it became mandatory for all new buildings above 30m (like this one) to have sprinklers fitted regardless of public/private ownership.

EDIT: not compulsory for 30m+ buildings built prior to 2007 to have sprinklers retrofitted. I remember Paget Brown (ex-leader of KCC) claiming Grenfell residents were against the installation of a sprinkler system but there's no evidence to back this up which there would be if his claim was true (meeting minutes etc.).

 

[Beermoth]

Tube driver halts journey and waves to people holding Grenfell vigil – video

 

[davesgcr]

Did anyone see the programme about the history of Grenfell Tower and the Lancaster West estate, and the surrounding area?

Very interesting in a 'Secret History of Our Streets' way. It focused largely on the history of class division within the area.

Excellent programme - going to watch it again.

 

[Lurdan]

Another lengthy response to O'Hagan's article in the LRB on the Grenfell Action Group blog

O’HAGAN’S IVORY TOWER – PART TWO

 

[rekil]

Good doc by sonya poulton. Deserves many views.

She repeats as fact the theory that 'political correctness' was responsible for the failures in dealing with gangs sexually exploiting children, as opposed to a combination of corruption and sheer disregard which there seems to be more evidence for.

Pretty good apart from that though.

Poulton is a loon whose CV includes an interview with Michael Shrimpton for Icke.

 

[AnandLeo]

The fate of the perished victims was ominous, because there was no angelic firefighter or police officer in London to shout total evacuation overriding the stay put order, no sooner than the ferociously spreading fire engulfed the building, and was not contained in a flat where it started. It is esoteric wisdom.
Grenfell firefighters questioned 'stay put' order which doomed residents
Firefighters tackling the devastating blaze at Grenfell Tower urged senior officers to abandon the policy of telling residents to stay inside their flats, a public inquiry heard.

 

[Teaboy]

The fate of the perished victims was ominous, because there was no angelic firefighter or police officer in London to shout total evacuation overriding the stay put order, no sooner than the ferociously spreading fire engulfed the building, and was not contained in a flat where it started. It is esoteric wisdom.
Grenfell firefighters questioned 'stay put' order which doomed residents
Firefighters tackling the devastating blaze at Grenfell Tower urged senior officers to abandon the policy of telling residents to stay inside their flats, a public inquiry heard.

Angelic?
Esoteric wisdom?

Fucking do one, yeah.

 

[Pickman's model]

The fate of the perished victims was ominous, because there was no angelic firefighter or police officer in London to shout total evacuation overriding the stay put order, no sooner than the ferociously spreading fire engulfed the building, and was not contained in a flat where it started. It is esoteric wisdom.
Grenfell firefighters questioned 'stay put' order which doomed residents
Firefighters tackling the devastating blaze at Grenfell Tower urged senior officers to abandon the policy of telling residents to stay inside their flats, a public inquiry heard.

oh dear

 

[Pickman's model]

Poulton is a loon whose CV includes an interview with Michael Shrimpton for Icke.

speaking of loons...

The fate of the perished victims was ominous, because there was no angelic firefighter or police officer in London to shout total evacuation overriding the stay put order, no sooner than the ferociously spreading fire engulfed the building, and was not contained in a flat where it started. It is esoteric wisdom.
Grenfell firefighters questioned 'stay put' order which doomed residents
Firefighters tackling the devastating blaze at Grenfell Tower urged senior officers to abandon the policy of telling residents to stay inside their flats, a public inquiry heard.

 

[Brainaddict]

Does anyone know, with regard to the 300+ tower blocks that have unsafe cladding, what the ages of the cladding are? I’m trying to work out when unsuitable cladding started getting used, i.e. is there a particular date when the building control system started breaking down, and how this might relate to the privatisation of building control.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Does anyone know, with regard to the 300+ tower blocks that have unsafe cladding, what the ages of the cladding are? I’m trying to work out when unsuitable cladding started getting used, i.e. is there a particular date when the building control system started breaking down, and how this might relate to the privatisation of building control.

Anecdotally the only buildings round here getting their cladding replaced post-Grenfell have had the cladding for less than ten years. In some cases they're new buildings which had the flammable cladding as part of the original design.

 

[Casual Observer]

ITV have seen a 'fire deficiency notice' from the London Fire Brigade that was sent to KCTMO in November 2016 highlighting multiple safety failures at Grenfell Tower which required 'prompt action'. The deadline for remedial action imposed by the LFB was May 2017, one month before the June 2017 fire which killed 72 people.

The 'fire deficiency notice' has not been made public. That phrase is ITV's by the way - I think 'enforcement notice' is the official parlance. Incidentally, such a notice is not the most severe that the LFB (or another fire brigade) can serve but does require action within a set time period - a 'prohibition notice' is more severe and requires a faster and more drastic response.

A separate fire risk assessment (FRA) was also carried out independently (not by the LFB) in June 2016, a year before the fire. The assessor then wrote to KCTMO in October 2016, just 8 months before the fire, to express concern that no action had been taken on more than 20 of the issues highlighted in their report.

One of the issues of concern raised to KCTMO was poorly fitted communal area fire doors. After the fire, 'experts' expressed surprise at the ease and speed with which smoke spread through the interior of the building.

Hopefully, this strengthens the case for corporate manslaugher against KCTMO at least.

More info on the link below but be warned that it does contain David Lammy.

The first documents that show there were official warnings about fire safety at Grenfell Tower months before tragedy

 

[belboid]

The 'fire deficiency notice' has not been made public. That phrase is ITV's by the way - I think 'enforcement notice' is the official parlance.

ITV are actually correct, surprisingly. 'A Notification of Fire Safety Deficiencies' is served if there are 'provisions and or procedures, which the Fire Authority considers as either lacking or not suitable and sufficient in regards to the Premise.'

 

[Treacle Toes]

How to get it soooooooooooooo wrong...

'JAA Studio’s view
The still, silent, blackened shell of Grenfell was a haunting and brutally honest account of what happened, and as such very disturbing to view in the aftermath. Now over a year on, the tower is cocooned in scaffolding and tarpaulin; not as raw, not as black, covered up.

Grenfell Tower: in Memoriam retains the existing tower’s structure and encases it within a civic-scaled sarcophagus of 224 black concrete panels. Visually, the tower will remain part of the skyline, but differentiated from the similarly scaled blocks nearby by its lack of windows and unpunctured silhouette. It stands in the city scape, part of it, but standing apart.

At night, Flat 16 where the fire started, is illuminated amongst the mass of shadow, a small gilded beacon, a quiet nightly narrator of the tragic event.

The rooftop is made accessible to form a memorial roof garden. A perimeter of columns topped by a canopy in pared-back black concrete as per the monolithic tower below, act as a muted backdrop to contrast to the newly planted colours and swaying wild flowers on this new 25th storey open to the sky. Stillness is formed, a true quiet space above the hustle and bustle. A place to stop. A place to reflect. A place to breathe.

The physical proposals are somber, restrained, quiet, yet effective through their presence in the medium and distant views, how the memorial speaks to the city and to the local area. At close range however, the bottom four floors are renovated and re-purposed, made a pleasant and approachable space. These levels are extended and clad in glazing, lightweight and open, in contrast to the imposing and expressive bulk of the tower above - the scheme is not only physically present as a memorial, but also of purpose and use to the community. A new community centre is introduced, the boxing club is reinstated as well as a small permanent documentary gallery to the disaster and its victims.

All other floors are closed off, serving no purpose other than to form the monument in the landscape.

This project does not claim to be the answer to the difficult conditions found in the aftermath of Grenfell, but instead offers an alternative way of thinking about the site (and others similar) and its new-found sanctity through disaster. If we build over these individual spaces borne out of tragedy we will forget over time. And the city needs its scars; the city needs to remember. Because if we don’t, in the future we won’t only be discussing Ronan Point and Grenfell, but who knows how many other avoidable catastrophes.'

MP slams architects’ ‘misery porn’ Grenfell Tower memorial concept

 

[hash tag]

Restores your faith, huh?

Finance manager admits spending £60k of Grenfell victim fund on herself

 

[Pickman's model]

Restores your faith, huh?

Finance manager admits spending £60k of Grenfell victim fund on herself

so grenfell victims, the nhs and a museum. no wonder her husband doesn't want her to come back, she's plumbing the depths of human iniquity

 

[hash tag]

I really don't know how people can be so cruel and mean. She must have had a reasonable income.

 

[Teaboy]

There has been quite few people looking to make a quick buck out of the misery of others at Grenfell. As far as I can tell most of them have just been desperate chancers but this is a new low. What the fuck is wrong with someone like this?

 

[hot air baboon]

 

[cupid_stunt]

If you haven't watched it, I suggest checking out on the iPlayer 'The Fires that Foretold Grenfell' that was shown last night on BBC2.

Lessons should have been learnt from previous fires, dating back to the 'Summerland' one on the Isle of Mann in 1973, un-fucking-unbelievable.

Summerland disaster - Wikipedia

 

[davesgcr]

If you haven't watched it, I suggest checking out on the iPlayer 'The Fires that Foretold Grenfell' that was shown last night on BBC2.

Lessons should have been learnt from previous fires, dating back to the 'Summerland' one on the Isle of Mann in 1973, un-fucking-unbelievable.

Summerland disaster - Wikipedia

One of my volunteer colleagues spent a lifetime working nearby in the Fire Research department at Garston (near here) , and as a young man was flown to investigate the Summerland disaster - (there were no other senior bods around) - he contributed to this programme and was interviewed , but did not appear on it.

He does not like to talk about it , or some of the other bad fires he had to cast professional judgement over.