Feminism- experiences of man-whispering and the refusal to do so...

[polly]

I'm not whining. I'm saying I am not doing your legwork when my entire point was that women shouldn't have to. Do some fucking research. Even a search on here will probably find you an answer given once upon a time by a woman.

He doesn't want an answer though. All he wants to do is whine.

 

[Gromit]

Go away.please.

Hey I tried to engage. I politely asked how can I help? Got it thrown back in my face. Is it any wonder change is slow.

 

[JimW]

So we might as well end the thread as the answer to the OP is just fucking Google it. Ain't going to discuss solutions here.

Read to me like a discussion was developing until you stuck your oar in with demands for something you're not going to get. How about leaving it now and seeing where it goes without this dead-end back and forth?

 

[Gromit]

He doesn't want an answer though. All he wants to do is whine.

I do want an answer. I am indeed whining that I'm not getting an answer. You're right. Thank you for correcting me.
I'll follow my own standard and suggest a solution. One of you feminists that knows so much more than me... Give me an answer.

 

[Gromit]

Read to me like a discussion was developing until you stuck your oar in with demands for something you're not going to get. How about leaving it now and seeing where it goes without this dead-end back and forth?

It could have developed further but you're right the man hate is too strong and is standing in the way of it going any further. Had I been a woman asking what men can do I'd have gotten an answer. Just keep chatting amongst yourselves. It won't change anything if you don't involve all the stakeholders but hey if it makes you feel better.

I'm off.

 

[polly]

I do want an answer. I am indeed whining that I'm not getting an answer. You're right. Thank you for correcting me.
I'll follow my own standard and suggest a solution. One of you feminists that knows so much more than me... Give me an answer.

You've successfully made this all about you. I know you're not genuine but here, do some reading. 320m results so that should keep you busy while the thread gets back to the subject of man whispering.

 

[JimW]

That's the lowest start to taking the high road I've seen in a while.

 

[Manter]

At what point do we all come together though?

On 23rd June, 2058. About 2pm, but we can firm up the details nearer the time

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Christ almighty, the state of some blokes on this thread

Here’s a thought - if lots of women are saying this is a thing and a problem, maybe - just fucking maybe - they might have a bloody point.

 

[Rebelda]

Hey I tried to engage. I politely asked how can I help? Got it thrown back in my face. Is it any wonder change is slow.

Oh no, did I not man-whisper enough. Should i have used more smiley faces. Diddums

 

[Steel Icarus]

Rutita1 did either you or spanglechick come up with "man-whispering" as a name for the behaviour?

 

[kabbes]

Who’d have thought that the world’s worst bad faith troll on feminism might not get a ready-made pat answer that meets his satisfaction to his bad faith question about something people have been trying to figure out for at least 50 years?

 

[petee]

Christ almighty, the state of some blokes on this thread

Here’s a thought - if lots of women are saying this is a thing and a problem, maybe - just fucking maybe - they might have a bloody point.

a thing that i, at least, accept completely. i believe every account above from a woman poster about her interactions with their guys. but, again, men have no monopoly on this. my marriage crashed exactly because my wife simply could not engage in emotional talk. my every attempt to initiate difficult but necessary discussion was met with screaming finger pointing or dredging up ancient disputes in an attempt to sidetrack. only after she left did she admit what i had been concerned about, and I'm quoting here, "you can't know how much I drank and spent."

guess what? I'm one of, oh, maybe a billion men in the same position. the adjective to describe that is "systemic."

a book that helped me was
Stop Walking on Eggshells.
worth a look from others, from the sound of what i read above.

 

[Gromit]

Who’d have thought that the world’s worst bad faith troll on feminism might not get a ready-made pat answer that meets his satisfaction to his bad faith question about something people have been trying to figure out for at least 50 years?

The question was asked in good faith.

 

[Gromit]

Christ almighty, the state of some blokes on this thread

Here’s a thought - if lots of women are saying this is a thing and a problem, maybe - just fucking maybe - they might have a bloody point.

I never denied the problem.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Oh come on, do I have to do _another_ thread ban? Why not just leave it.

 

[Gromit]

Oh no, did I not man-whisper enough. Should i have used more smiley faces. Diddums

JimW asked me to leave it. So I did. Now you're gloating as if you somehow chased me off.
I can stay if you'd prefer and we can continue going around in circles butting heads and going nowhere?

Point to a single instance where anyone has man whispered to me on here lol. Both barrels is what i get on her. Never man whispering.

 

[Gromit]

Oh come on, do I have to do _another_ thread ban? Why not just leave it.

I said i was going, they carried on at me. Let them decide whether they want me to stay or go. Surely i have a right to reply? I'm more than happy to leave it.

 

[Steel Icarus]

You haven't left it though, you've kept droning on.

 

[kabbes]

The question was asked in good faith.

Fuck off, Gromit

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

men have no monopoly on this

That.

Isn't.

The.

Point.

Here.

 

[polly]

a thing that i, at least, accept completely. i believe every account above from a woman poster about her interactions with their guys. but, again, men have no monopoly on this. my marriage crashed exactly because my wife simply could not engage in emotional talk. my every attempt to initiate difficult but necessary discussion was met with screaming finger pointing or dredging up ancient disputes in an attempt to sidetrack. only after she left did she admit what i had been concerned about, and I'm quoting here, "you can't know how much I drank and spent."

guess what? I'm one of, oh, maybe a billion men in the same position. the adjective to describe that is "systemic."

a book that helped me was
Stop Walking on Eggshells.
worth a look from others, from the sound of what i read above.

It's not about the men that we are in relationships with, though - or not for the most part. If I understand it properly, it's about how women have to negotiate and manage the potential for violence (verbal or physical) in their interactions with men they don't know, men they do know AND men they're with. And how often and quickly those become unpleasant at best, dangerous at worst if we don't. I'm sorry about your relationship but the subject you seem to want to get into only bears a slight similarity to the subject of the thread.

 

[Rebelda]

JimW asked me to leave it. So I did. Now you're gloating as if you somehow chased me off.
I can stay if you'd prefer and we can continue going around in circles butting heads and going nowhere?

Point to a single instance where anyone has man whispered to me on here lol. Both barrels is what i get on her. Never man whispering.

I'm saying I haven't and you have, predictably, chucked your toys out the pram. If I'd massaged your ego while making my point I bet you wouldn't be griping. Please re-read the op. You seem to think the point of this thread is to teach men how not to lose their shit and ruin things when women don't kiss their arses. You don't seem to be able to understand the following: men taking responsibility for the "minority" (lol) includes not relying on women to tell you how.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

JimW asked me to leave it. So I did. Now you're gloating as if you somehow chased me off.
I can stay if you'd prefer and we can continue going around in circles butting heads and going nowhere?

Point to a single instance where anyone has man whispered to me on here lol. Both barrels is what i get on her. Never man whispering.

That last line looks very like “Wah wah but I want a turn! When’s it going to be my turn? It’s not fair he gets a turn and I don’t!”

Part of the point is that there is no necessity to avoid bruising the male ego on here. There’s almost no risk of real world conflict. So on balance, left to our own devices, weighing up the pros and cons, calculating the cost : benefit ratio, when we know we can speak freely without risk, we mostly choose not to pander to hurt feelings.

Because we are making those calculations in our interactions with men.

The quicksilver thinking that follows the swift appraisal of how to say “no thanks” to the seedy bloke at the bus stop in a way that keeps us safe is a version of the same process we have to undertake at home.

 

[Rebelda]

I won't reply to him again. Promise.

 

[Manter]

It could have developed further but you're right the man hate is too strong and is standing in the way of it going any further. Had I been a woman asking what men can do I'd have gotten an answer. Just keep chatting amongst yourselves. It won't change anything if you don't involve all the stakeholders but hey if it makes you feel better.

I'm off.

‘Man hate’.... a fair % of the women on this thread are straight, in long term relationships with men, have male children, have brothers, fathers etc who they love. It’s not about mane hate- it’s about hating this ridiculous, reductive histrionics.

 

[Gromit]

‘Man hate’.... a fair % of the women on this thread are straight, in long term relationships with men, have male children, have brothers, fathers etc who they love. It’s not about mane hate- it’s about hating this ridiculous, reductive histrionics.

In the past it's been explained on urban that a white person can marry a black person and still be racist.
I guess the same arguement can be used against you here.

 

[Gromit]

That last line looks very like “Wah wah but I want a turn! When’s it going to be my turn? It’s not fair he gets a turn and I don’t!”

Part of the point is that there is no necessity to avoid bruising the male ego on here. There’s almost no risk of real world conflict. So on balance, left to our own devices, weighing up the pros and cons, calculating the cost : benefit ratio, when we know we can speak freely without risk, we mostly choose not to pander to hurt feelings.

Because we are making those calculations in our interactions with men.

The quicksilver thinking that follows the swift appraisal of how to say “no thanks” to the seedy bloke at the bus stop in a way that keeps us safe is a version of the same process we have to undertake at home.

If being subjected to both barrels on a regular basis was a wah wah thing for me I'd have left urban long ago don't cha think?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I thought the point here was not that this is some sort of thing that only women always do with only all men (of course not) but the specific social context of it existing between women and men and how it has come to be default and often transparent behaviour in many areas, how that expectation is passed on, how it affects personal relationships, that sort of thing. I mean that sounds like a reasonable area to talk about.

 

[Gromit]

I won't reply to him again. Promise.

Yeah we can try this again.

I'm off.

I'll stay off if people don't give me a need to use my right of reply to defend myself.