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Feminism- experiences of man-whispering and the refusal to do so...

See, that thing of being scared a bloke might turn on you if rejected was a thing I never got the memo about. Ditto, when I read things about how women change where they go, what they do because of fear of men is not something I ever felt, and I have wondered why. Obviously, there is the fact I have had the good fortune never to have been sexually assaulted, nor have I even been harassed much. There’s also, perhaps, that all my mates were male when I was a kid and I was very late to any kind of interest in sex (I relented and started when I was 21, more out of curiosity than anything else). I didn’t think of men as all that different to me and I generally assumed they weren’t sexually interested in me. I never thought much of it if a bloke talked to me; and if he came on to me I never thought anything of saying I wasn’t interested or I didn’t want to talk to them right now. Just did not occur to me to feel threatened and to not just tell them it wasn’t going anywhere.

This is not, of course, because ‘all women should be sensible like me and stop being neurotic’- I'm a bit weird like thatl it was my naivete, plus the fact very few men have ever come on to me (as far as I realised); and I guess I was fortunate that none of the guys I turned down ever was abusive or violent to me in response.
 
Disruptive Conduct
polly said:
It's also things like turning a man down in a way that doesn't invite violence. I learned this when I was 16 and at a club. Some bloke tried to chat me up, I politely but unsmilingly turned him down. He set my clothes on fire when my back was turned, in front of all his friends who did nothing to stop him. For example. I only remembered this after reading this thread - seemed pretty run of the mill at the time.

It is not the same thing as tiptoeing around your nearest and dearest. Not not not not not.
Click to expand...
I've smacked a lighter out of someone's hand because he was going to burn a woman's hair as a joke.
He's done it to men and it just fizzles straight out.
I pointed out women wear hairspray and they go up like torch the daft twat.
 
Glitter said:
Lets just stop and think about this for a minute.

Lucky.

And you’re right, you are :(

So blokes bleating on with your #metoo bollocks just stop and consider that this is the fucking BENCHMARK and wind your necks in.
Click to expand...
I’ll confess, for a long time I couldn’t believe it was *really* that bad for women because it never happened to me and my mates (when actually, I have to say, I didn’t have close and confiding friendships so I honestly couldn’t tell you if it had happened to my mates or not) and weren’t other women being oversensitive and oooh wasn’t I smarter and more rational than them, but you know what. I believe women. Simple as that. There’s enough people saying it that it’s fucking true whether I have experienced it or not.
 
Cloo said:
I’ll confess, for a long time I couldn’t believe it was *really* that bad for women because it never happened to me and my mates (when actually, I have to say, I didn’t have close and confiding friendships so I honestly couldn’t tell you if it had happened to my mates or not) and weren’t other women being oversensitive and oooh wasn’t I smarter and more rational than them, but you know what. I believe women. Simple as that. There’s enough people saying it that it’s fucking true whether I have experienced it or not.
Click to expand...

I think as well the post you just made, where you’ve almost had to justify to other women why that hasn’t been your experience is basically man whispering by proxy.

You shouldn’t have to justify it. Your experience should be all our experience. I wish it was.
 
Surprised no one has mentioned the widespread experience of treading on eggshells around a woman who has PMT.
 
Gromit said:
I've smacked a lighter out of someone's hand because he was going to burn a woman's hair as a joke.
He's done it to men and it just fizzles straight out.
I pointed out women wear hairspray and they go up like torch the daft twat.
Click to expand...
I'm terrible at reading hints and clues, but even I can see this is not at all the place for your Hot Takes on feminism and anecdotes of how you were essentially Sir Galahad on one occasion in 1986 or w/e.
You said you were not going to continue posting on this thread. Kindly keep that promise.
 
TopCat said:
Surprised no one has mentioned the widespread experience of treading on eggshells around a woman who has PMT.
Click to expand...


Might it be possible that a woman who is tired, wrung out, possibly in pain, and dealing with an overload of emotional-changing hormones is someone who is going to be less patient, less equitable, less willing to suck up the bullshit than the rest of the month when she has to wrangle the housework, her own work and all the emotional labour in the household?

How about the possibility that it’s not that the woman is more pissed off than she usually is, but instead that her threshold of tolerance is lower than normal. Maybe she’s this pissed off all the time but more able to deal with that, more able to do the work of man-whispering.

One week off in a month of swallowing down the irritation seems like something men might allow.


ETA Disclaimers NAMNAW I don’t know about your personal circumstances and yes, some women are worse affected than others by PMT


But ffs if we’re going to start using PMT as a reason not to pay attention to the issues I think we’re close to losing this battle.
 
Most unsuccessful man whispering session happened when I was 19 and had missed the last bus back to my house from Morden Station.

I say missed. It was dark and the bus driver didn't see me in the bus stop and drove straight past me leaving me to take a 20 minute walk home alone along a fairly main road. I wasn't drunk (maybe a bit stoned), I'd been visiting my friends that evening.

Anyway this guy appeared from the shadows and started following me and insisted that he walk me home. He made me jump. He said that a pretty girl like me shouldn't be walking home in thr dark because there are so many weirdos about and you know what men are like.... Totally lacking any sort of self awareness :rolleyes:

I tried to get him to leave quietly, told him that I didn't live far, that I live on a well lit main road, that I know the area, that my parents are awake and waiting for me. NOTHING I could say would put this man off and I had no choice but to let this dude walk with me, for 20 minutes all the way home.

I found out stuff about him, he was from Morocco, his trade was making rugs.. He was single (of course :rolleyes:). He wanted me to visit his rug shop, that Morocco is so beautiful and I should go with him. The longer I walked with him the creepier and creepier he became until I genuinely started to worry for my safety.

He kept asking me where I lived.. "not far now.." I kept saying "I live on this road" and I did. It was a very long, very main, well lit b-road. I started to suspect that this guy had sinister motives and I still think that I was right, because when I did actually say "this is my house, bye" he looked genuinely shocked and disappointed that I hadn't been lying to him, and that I did actually live on a main road.

Anyway, he STILL refused to leave me alone and when I told home he couldn't come in in many variations "My parents are home, and they're asleep.. You can't come in" and stood outside and INSISTED that I give him my phone number because he was "so nice man that I walked you home". I scribbled down any old rubbish (I didn't have a mobile at the time) and he fucked off.

I think I lucked out there. I've never been so scared before, but it was exhausting trying to be "nice" not rocking the boat because I didn't know if this guy was going to rage out or not, pretending to be relaxed and cool and not appear vulnerable. Saying "I'm not interested" in as many kind ways as possible and put the message across kindly.

It's ridiculous that I couldn't say "fuck off mate, stop following me, leave me alone" but the reality is that in that you do what you can to get yourself out of danger. And a lot of the time that is man whispering so they aren't given the opportunity to pounce.

Anyway, I say it was unsuccessful because I was very uncomfortable for 20 minutes and failed to at getting him to leave me alone. However nothing happened to me so... I guess it worked.

For the next two weeks I was concerned that the dude would show up outside my house, but he never did.
 
TopCat said:
Surprised no one has mentioned the widespread experience of treading on eggshells around a woman who has PMT.
Click to expand...


Maybe you’re taking the piss with this?



By the way, women do recognise that having to deal with us when we’re premenstrual can be a serious issue in some relationships.

There’s a huge thread where women are sharing stuff about periods, please do make a thread about what it’s like for the men. I’d be genuinely interested to read it.

And as an aside - because it occurs to me that you really might not know - the stuff that becomes public about our experience of having a period is the stuff that is not being dealt with internally, what is beyond our capacity to handle privately. It’s the tip of the iceberg. Whatever is on the outside in terms of behaviour and reactions is over and above what we’re dealing with internally : physically, emotionally, mentally.

I remember once going for a walk with a boyfriend, who commented on the way I was walking. He asked me if I was injured. No, I replied, I was favouring my belly because of menstrual cramps: walking like this made it less painful. He said he’d never known I experienced cramps. Because it wasn't ever bad enough to talk about, only painful enough to change the way I moved my body for a few days a month.
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
Most unsuccessful man whispering session happened when I was 19 and had missed the last bus back to my house from Morden Station.

I say missed. It was dark and the bus driver didn't see me in the bus stop and drove straight past me leaving me to take a 20 minute walk home alone along a fairly main road. I wasn't drunk (maybe a bit stoned), I'd been visiting my friends that evening.

Anyway this guy appeared from the shadows and started following me and insisted that he walk me home. He made me jump. He said that a pretty girl like me shouldn't be walking home in thr dark because there are so many weirdos about and you know what men are like.... Totally lacking any sort of self awareness :rolleyes:

I tried to get him to leave quietly, told him that I didn't live far, that I live on a well lit main road, that I know the area, that my parents are awake and waiting for me. NOTHING I could say would put this man off and I had no choice but to let this dude walk with me, for 20 minutes all the way home.

I found out stuff about him, he was from Morocco, his trade was making rugs.. He was single (of course :rolleyes:). He wanted me to visit his rug shop, that Morocco is so beautiful and I should go with him. The longer I walked with him the creepier and creepier he became until I genuinely started to worry for my safety.

He kept asking me where I lived.. "not far now.." I kept saying "I live on this road" and I did. It was a very long, very main, well lit b-road. I started to suspect that this guy had sinister motives and I still think that I was right, because when I did actually say "this is my house, bye" he looked genuinely shocked and disappointed that I hadn't been lying to him, and that I did actually live on a main road.

Anyway, he STILL refused to leave me alone and when I told home he couldn't come in in many variations "My parents are home, and they're asleep.. You can't come in" and stood outside and INSISTED that I give him my phone number because he was "so nice man that I walked you home". I scribbled down any old rubbish (I didn't have a mobile at the time) and he fucked off.

I think I lucked out there. I've never been so scared before, but it was exhausting trying to be "nice" not rocking the boat because I didn't know if this guy was going to rage out or not, pretending to be relaxed and cool and not appear vulnerable. Saying "I'm not interested" in as many kind ways as possible and put the message across kindly.

It's ridiculous that I couldn't say "fuck off mate, stop following me, leave me alone" but the reality is that in that you do what you can to get yourself out of danger. And a lot of the time that is man whispering so they aren't given the opportunity to pounce.

Anyway, I say it was unsuccessful because I was very uncomfortable for 20 minutes and failed to at getting him to leave me alone. However nothing happened to me so... I guess it worked.

For the next two weeks I was concerned that the dude would show up outside my house, but he never did.
Click to expand...

I had a similar experience when I was in my 20s and lived on my own. The fucker actually DID turn up outside my flat a few times, and I had to pretend to be out. Scared the hell out of me.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
Might it be possible that a woman who is tired, wrung out, possibly in pain, and dealing with an overload of emotional-changing hormones is someone who is going to be less patient, less equitable, less willing to suck up the bullshit than the rest of the month when she has to wrangle the housework, her own work and all the emotional labour in the household?

How about the possibility that it’s not that the woman is more pissed off than she usually is, but instead that her threshold of tolerance is lower than normal. Maybe she’s this pissed off all the time but more able to deal with that, more able to do the work of man-whispering.

One week off in a month of swallowing down the irritation seems like something men might allow.


ETA Disclaimers NAMNAW I don’t know about your personal circumstances and yes, some women are worse affected than others by PMT


But ffs if we’re going to start using PMT as a reason not to pay attention to the issues I think we’re close to losing this battle.
Click to expand...
Why use PMT as a reason not to pay attention to the issues? Who suggested that? PMT is a reality for millions of women and it can impact on women, men, girls and boys. Managing women with PMT is a reality for women men girls and boys. Treading on eggshells a widespread experience.
 
Rutita1 said:
How many times do you 'men' people need to be invited to start your own threads to explore your human condition and experiences until you actually do it?

You won't though will you? Why is that? What is the payoff to continue to do this stuff here?
Click to expand...
This is not about men. PMT can affect the whole family and friends group and colleagues too. Why dismiss this?
 
ElizabethofYork said:
I had a similar experience when I was in my 20s and lived on my own. The fucker actually DID turn up outside my flat a few times, and I had to pretend to be out. Scared the hell out of me.
Click to expand...

It's absolutely fucking exhausting.

Still, it's good to know that there are anti-female men like Top-Cat who would have rushed in to tell me how my PMT is making me Irritable and that I should stop shouting late at night and waking the street up, should I have decided not to man whisper.

We all see what you are Top-Cat and you aren't coving yourself in glory. We see you.
 
TopCat said:
This is not about men. PMT can affect the whole family and friends group and colleagues too. Why dismiss this?
Click to expand...


It's really ingrained isn't it? The desire/need to undermine and control women. The need to be right and in charge and 'don't you fucking dare do anything that I am not the centre of because if you do etc. etc...' This tactical reminding us of our periods and PMT, it's a backhanded way of putting us in our place and reminding us of our 'biological weaknesses'... Well done.
 
Disruptive Conduct
Rutita1 said:
It's really ingrained isn't it? The desire/need to undermine and control women. The need to be right and in charge and 'don't you fucking dare do anything that I am not the centre of because if you do etc. etc...' This tactical reminding us of our periods and PMT, it's a backhanded way of putting us in our place and reminding us of our 'biological weaknesses'... Well done.
Click to expand...
This is all in your own head. Beyond projection and zero self awareness.
 
TopCat said:
Why use PMT as a reason not to pay attention to the issues? Who suggested that? PMT is a reality for millions of women and it can impact on women, men, girls and boys. Managing women with PMT is a reality for women men girls and boys. Treading on eggshells a widespread experience.
Click to expand...


Exactly the point I was making.
 
weepiper said:
If we all ignore him he might get bored and fuck off. Or we could let him make the whole thread about him, again *shrug*
Click to expand...


Yes.
Of course.
Ignore it.
Because it is itself ignorant, and not worthy of attention.

But why the fuck should we ignore this shit.
Ignoring it rather than calling it out means we have to be louder, and be ignorant ourselves.

This shit is the background noise against which we have to find our voice.

Ignore it rather than call it out, and then having to handle and manhandle and whisper our way around the hurt feelings and indignation.

I am so so sick of this bullshit.
 
SheilaNaGig said:
Yes.
Of course.
Ignore it.
Because it is itself ignorant, and not worthy of attention.

But why the fuck should we ignore this shit.
Ignoring it rather than calling it out means we have to be louder, and be ignorant ourselves.

This shit is the background noise against which we have to find our voice.

Ignore it rather than call it out, and then having to handle and manhandle and whisper our way around the hurt feelings and indignation.

I am so so sick of this bullshit.
Click to expand...
I know darling :( it's so incredibly draggy and tiresome. But responding to it just gives them our attention, which is really what they're after. And it just really effectively derails the thread.
 
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