Feminism- experiences of man-whispering and the refusal to do so...

[Rebelda]

I have no patience for it personally. The thought of having to do it in a relationship fills me with rage

Women in my job tend to not do it at all with other male professionals, maybe because it has to happen with all service users so the capacity gets spent? Generally it's not a problem, communication is accepted as direct and to the point. I've seen it go down badly with young male doctors though.

 

[Poot]

It's the old adage, isn't it, that men are concerned that women will laugh at them, whereas women are concerned that men will kill them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why did you just post up the definition from the pop-culture book then, without any kind of comment?

What point were you intending or hoping to make with that post?

I might ask you the same, with your enlistment of Manter's post, contributed after mine, to show what is under discussion. Or should I anticipate other people's posts? Seems to me from the early posts above there was some uncertainty of what's under discussion and outside the urban bubble the term seems, as I say, to possess a different meaning. Insofar as it is used at all. Read my post as 'I know now' which is what I meant in the light of manter's post

 

[Sweet FA]

Hypothetical question - kind of hypothetical anyway - how would a man give an opinion based on personal and lived experience on this topic without it coming across as whataboutery?

He might do it on another thread? (Genuine, not being facetious). I mean if hypothetically, a man wanted to talk about how he has to woman-whisper to avoid conflict, it'd be a different topic.

 

[Gromit]

A bit of context, please. Women are attacked, verbally and physically (sometimes to death) every week for saying 'the wrong thing' (be it refusing sexual advances, asserting their rights, nagging etc.). And women, as a group, have learned a way to mitigate that risk - 'man-whispering.' Yes, some men might have to pussyfoot around their wives now and again, if they want a quiet life, but it's hardly equivalent.

ETA: beaten the point by Rebelda.

The problem with these discussions is that the definition seems to be broadened way too far.

There is the managing of people, egos and personal relationships (which occurs on both sides) and then there is actual man whispering.

examples:
the woman who doesn't have her ideas listened to in the boardroom so has to lead a man into believing it was his idea in the first place.

Telling someone you ain't interested.

I'd agree the first is man whispering and it's sad we live in a society where it's necessary.

The second is just avoiding confrontation. We all do it on many levels. I've had to talk down men and women down from violence many times.

I'll acknowledge that some men can get aggro with rejection if you acknowledge that some women do to.
I'll acknowledge that some men can get violent but the level of fear seems largely disprotionate to me. Like the fear of terrorism where people are petrified to the point of giving up their civil liberties but in reality you are far more likely to die in a car accident.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Ta for the replies.

 

[Judelo]

EVERYONE has to be like this with my missus. NO-ONE can be honest with her without getting psychological violence (women tend to go more often down that road with their violence).

Edited for clarity.

Sorry to be reactionary and slightly derail the thread.

Just whenever I see or hear anything like this anywhere, I get a little frustrated. Not just due to my current experience. And not to belittle anyone else's experience either.

And by the way I wasn't going "Me Me Me", rather " equal recognition for issues faced by non-physically-violent* members of what coincidentally is my gender". Tbh though I (yes Me now but I know other men feel similar) do often feel my/our issues are invalidated cos we're blokes.

(*I admit I'm not totally non-psychologically-violent, but (not to excuse myself) who can honestly say they are?)

But not for this thread I know - sorry.

I perhaps should start an opposite way round gender-specific thread. Or one asking the question "Is psychological violence as bad as physical violence?" (For the record I used to be adamant it is, but am these days not so sure, due to general changes in my outlook).

 

[SheilaNaGig]

The problem with these discussions is that the definition seems to be broadened way too far.

There is the managing of people, egos and personal relationships (which occurs on both sides) and then there is actual man whispering.

examples:
the woman who doesn't have her ideas listened to in the boardroom so has to lead a man into believing it was his idea in the first place.

Telling someone you ain't interested.

I'd agree the first is man whispering and it's sad we live in a society where it's necessary.

The second is just avoiding confrontation. We all do it on many levels. I've had to talk down men and women down from

I'll acknowledge that some men can get aggro with rejection if you acknowledge that some women do to.
I'll acknowledge that some men can get violent but the level of fear seems largely disprotionate to me. Like the fear of terrorism where people are petrified to the point of giving up their civil liberties but in reality you are far more likely to die in a car accident.

What the fuck?!

The level of fear of male on female violence is disproportionate.

We’re exaggerating, making it up, being hysterical, over reacting.


It clearly hasn't occurred to you that :

Men threaten violence more often than they commit it

Women report domestic violence much less often than they experience it

The reason that potentially dangerous situation don't always escalate to outright violence is exactly because women have met the necessity to talk men down, avoid the trigger points and deflect their temper


..Personal stuff edited out...

I’m tempted to say fuck off, Gromit but I’d rather have you out in the light where I can see you rather than hidden away in the dark fulminating your nasty bullshit.

 

[seventh bullet]

Maybe not the exact same thing, but my father was both emotionally and physically abusive towards my mother, and I think its lasting effects on her have been present in how she has dealt with both myself and my brother, something which didn't become apparent to me, at least, until I 'grew up .' What I mean is her ways of treating situations in which a younger me may have been in need of telling straight about my behaviour (and I took her for granted for many years) but in a way so as to not elicit a reaction which, in the past, might have meant a punch or several. She learned it to survive, at great cost to her own internal well-being.

 

[Gromit]

What the fuck?!

The level of fear of male on female violence is disproportionate.

1. We’re exaggerating, 2. making it up, 3. being hysterical, 4. over reacting.

1. No. And I never said that.
2. No. And I never said that.
3. No And I never said that.

Stop putting words in other people's mouths.

4. Yes some are over reacting. Treating ALL men as a threat when it's a minority that's to blame.

I will admit though that I'm talking about the UK and can't speak about other countries that are still in the middle ages as far a treating women are concerned.

Sorry to hear of your situation though.

 

[Idaho]

I have found that people who kick off unless everything is sugar coated for them are always the people who never compromise or sugar coat anything themselves. Tolerate my intolerance, as it were.

 

[TopCat]

I have found that people who kick off unless everything is sugar coated for them are always the people who never compromise or sugar coat anything themselves. Tolerate my intolerance, as it were.

Yeah it's about control and controlling others. Some people are totally toxic and most people will recognise them and avoid them
Many people are sometimes toxic and people around them mange their behaviour. You have to be very careful though not to pander too much and toxic people are often adept at messing with your perceptions of what is reasonable.

 

[TopCat]

I have found that people who kick off unless everything is sugar coated for them are always the people who never compromise or sugar coat anything themselves. Tolerate my intolerance, as it were.

Yeah and often totally overanalize others behaviour and reactions, never their own.

 

[Santino]

'People'

 

[Rebelda]

Judelo I think it's really important for men to discuss how they feel, what hurts their feelings and why, what makes them feel small, angry etc. But it needs to be initiated by men, not mediated by women on a thread explicitly about feminism. Every. Bloody. Thread. About. Feminism. Go and start one. Talk. It's a good idea

 

[Judelo]

I have found that people who kick off unless everything is sugar coated for them are always the people who never compromise or sugar coat anything themselves. Tolerate my intolerance, as it were.

Not always, but often.

 

[Judelo]

Judelo I think it's really important for men to discuss how they feel, what hurts their feelings and why, what makes them feel small, angry etc. But it needs to be initiated by men, not mediated by women on a thread explicitly about feminism. Every. Bloody. Thread. About. Feminism. Go and start one. Talk. It's a good idea

At what point do we all come together though?

 

[Gromit]

At what point do we all come together though?

And like find solutions n stuff?!

That not what bulletin boards are about. It's about whining and blaming.

 

[Rebelda]

4. Yes some are over reacting. Treating ALL men as a threat when it's a minority that's to blame.

If some women treat ALL MEN (omg) as a threat because of some men, that's something men need to deal with isn't it? Get your house in order.

 

[Rebelda]

At what point do we all come together though?

Most of the rest of the time

 

[Gromit]

If some women treat ALL MEN (omg) as a threat because of some men, that's something men need to deal with isn't it? Get your house in order.

How exactly? Give me some pointers on how I do my part.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

1. No. And I never said that.
2. No. And I never said that.
3. No And I never said that.

Stop putting words in other people's mouths.

4. Yes some are over reacting. Treating ALL men as a threat when it's a minority that's to blame.

I will admit though that I'm talking about the UK and can't speak about other countries that are still in the middle ages as far a treating women are concerned.

Sorry to hear of your situation though.

Saying that the level of fear amongst women about men is disproportionate to the real situation is the same as saying women are exaggerating, making it up, overreacting.

Use your own analogy about terrorism:

People who are fearful of bombs on the underground even though it happens rarely are exaggerating the risks. (Women who are fearful of men even though it happens rarely are exaggerating the risks)

People who worry that every rucksack contains a bomb are making it up, inventing danger where there isn’t any. (Women who worry that every man has the potential to assault her or degrade her is making it up, inventing danger where it doesn’t exist.)

People who change the way they live for fear of terror attacks are over reacting. (Women who change the way they react and deal with men because of fear of attack are over reacting.)

Do you really not see how this works?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

How exactly? Give me some pointers on how I do my part.

It’s like you can’t do joined up thinking.

 

[Rebelda]

How exactly? Give me some pointers on how I do my part.

No. Get your own house in order.

 

[Gromit]

No. Get your own house in order.

Like I said. All you want to do is whine. Offered the opportunity to actually advise all you do is point a finger.

 

[Gromit]

Saying that the level of fear amongst women about men is disproportionate to the real situation is the same as saying women are exaggerating, making it up, overreacting.

Use your own analogy about terrorism:

People who are fearful of bombs on the underground even though it happens rarely are exaggerating the risks. (Women who are fearful of men even though it happens rarely are exaggerating the risks)

People who worry that every rucksack contains a bomb are making it up, inventing danger where there isn’t any. (Women who worry that every man has the potential to assault her or degrade her is making it up, inventing danger where it doesn’t exist.)

People who change the way they live for fear of terror attacks are over reacting. (Women who change the way they react and deal with men because of fear of attack are over reacting.)

Do you really not see how this works?

False logic.
Saying a reaction is disproportionate to the risk is not saying that the risk is inflated but that the reaction is inflated. Don't you see how this works?

 

[Gromit]

It’s like you can’t do joined up thinking.

It's like you have no answer.

 

[Rebelda]

Like I said. All you want to do is whine. Offered the opportunity to actually advise all you do is point a finger.

I'm not whining. I'm saying I am not doing your legwork when my entire point was that women shouldn't have to. Do some fucking research. Even a search on here will probably find you an answer given once upon a time by a woman.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Like I said. All you want to do is whine. Offered the opportunity to actually advise all you do is point a finger.

Go away.please.

 

[Gromit]

I'm not whining. I'm saying I am not doing your legwork when my entire point was that women shouldn't have to. Do some fucking research. Even a search on here will probably find you an answer given once upon a time by a woman.

So we might as well end the thread as the answer to the OP is just fucking Google it. Ain't going to discuss solutions here.