Feminism- experiences of man-whispering and the refusal to do so...

[Manter]

You said
"And while I’m on it- the delusion of men. There appears to be no ‘she’s out of my league’ filter, at all. On one level charming- maybe they really think it’s their sparkly personalities that matter? Maybe they think they have sparkly personalities?!"
That's what you said, and all the abuse in the world won't change that. But well done accusing me of being a rapist.

You really are a nasty little sex pest, aren’t you?

I don't know if this makes you feel big or clever, but let me explain for men in the thread who don’t have whatever grotesque issue you do.

Any man can approach any woman, at a time that is respectful and appropriate and see if she is interested in them. It’s worth doing a quick sense check before you do. Is it remotely likely? Has she ever shown any sign of being interested? Is she doing something else, Is this approach guaranteed not to scare, upset, or discomfort her? Am I abusing a position of authority?

If you reckon your approach passes all those tests, you can approach. She gets to say no. Without explanation or caveat.

Then you fuck off.

Repeatedly coming on to and harassing a woman is fucking gross.

The fact men do it is monumentally fucking gross and any man who plays games with that because it makes him feel big and clever is the sort of cunt who needs to come with a health warning. Preferably tattooed across his forehead.

 

[Sue]

What are these threads about, Saul Goodman? And what are your thoughts on all these stories? Are you surprised, shocked, unshocked, what?

I'm genuinely interested as a lot of men seem to have literally no idea that this kind of stuff happens and is actually pretty common.

 

[Saul Goodman]

What are these threads about, Saul Goodman? And what are your thoughts on all these stories? Are you surprised, shocked, unshocked, what?

I'm genuinely interested as a lot of men seem to have literally no idea that this kind of stuff happens and is actually pretty common.

I asked a simple question and got abused for it. It's exactly what I've come to expect from these threads. Lots of nastiness.

 

[Sue]

And what are your views on the stories up thread, Saul Goodman? Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[Saul Goodman]

And what are your views on the stories up thread, Saul Goodman? Interested to hear your thoughts.

I absolutely agree that there are plenty of men who are complete cunts. I meet them every day. There are also plenty of women who are complete cunts. Manter being a perfect example.

 

[polly]

Unfortunately I think twitter only makes these good decisions by accident.

Still, well done!

I'm actually a handsome bastard who has no problem in that department, but thanks for confirming my suspicions.

What suspicions? I was very careful not to accuse or insult you, but you should know (assuming you don't already, which is giving you the benefit of the doubt) that this is a really common trope among incels, that women are only repelled by them because they're ugly. The sad thing is that their looks are the least of their worries, so that may well be something else you have in common.

Probably the most shocking thing is that I live on one of the busiest streets in the city (and near a children's zoo). I suspect part of the allure is the disapproval he gets while doing it.

Ugh probably. Never sure what to do in this situation - laughing is dangerous, being appalled is what they want, police dgaf...

 

[Poot]

I absolutely agree that there are plenty of men who are complete cunts. I meet them every day. There are also plenty of women who are complete cunts. Manter being a perfect example.

So you just came here to troll then. And you haven't read the thread at all.

 

[Saul Goodman]

So you just came here to troll then. And you haven't read the thread at all.

Incorrect.

 

[campanula]

Yeah, because disagreeing on the internet (as opposed to being stalked, harassed, groped, sleazed over,) is absolutely evidence that someone is a complete cunt. So precious.

 

[Saul Goodman]

What suspicions? I was very careful not to accuse or insult you, but you should know (assuming you don't already, which is giving you the benefit of the doubt) that this is a really common trope among incels, that women are only repelled by them because they're ugly. The sad thing is that their looks are the least of their worries, so that may well be something else you have in common.

The suspicion that these threads are full of toxicity. I guess the title should have been a big enough clue.
It's nice to be accused of being an incel and a rapist for asking such a simple question.

 

[Pickman's model]

I absolutely agree that there are plenty of men who are complete cunts. I meet them every day. There are also plenty of women who are complete cunts. Manter being a perfect example.

This will end well

 

[trashpony]

The threads are about women’s lived experiences of interacting with men. They’re not pleasant reading because for most of us, our experience of men can be pretty unpleasant. Most women have been sexually harassed by men. Most of us have been sexually assaulted. Most of us have experienced aggression when telling men we’re not interested.

What exactly is your issue? Is it that we’re talking about it?

 

[polly]

The suspicion that these threads are full of toxicity. I guess the title should have been a big enough clue.
It's nice to be accused of being an incel and a rapist for asking such a simple question.

Didn't

 

[Saul Goodman]

The threads are about women’s lived experiences of interacting with men. They’re not pleasant reading because for most of us, our experience of men can be pretty unpleasant. Most women have been sexually harassed by men. Most of us have been sexually assaulted. Most of us have experienced aggression when telling men we’re not interested.

What exactly is your issue? Is it that we’re talking about it?

My issue is that 'men' are being dragged through the mud. It's cunts that are the problem, not 'men', and there are as many women fall under the 'cunt' category as there are men.

 

[Manter]

I asked a simple question and got abused for it. It's exactly what I've come to expect from these threads. Lots of nastiness.

Well fuck off then. We won’t miss you

 

[Poot]

My issue is that 'men' are being dragged through the mud. It's cunts that are the problem, not 'men', and there are as many women fall under the 'cunt' category as there are men.

So after the pages and pages of discussing the patriarchy, this is all you've got?

 

[Manter]

Incorrect.

Completely patently true. And while you’ve shown yourself to be illiterate as well as a deeply inadequate human being, you may want to google parts of speech and think about the difference between rapist and rapey. Though that shows a level of reflection that you are clearly incapable of.

I never had you down for the sort of man who went all MRA on threads like this. I was wrong. Men like you are the problem.

 

[Manter]

He

This will end well

doesn’t want it to end well. Whining MRA MO. They’re being nasty to me! They are all bitches! Women won’t sleep with me because feminism! I’m not a sex pest because I think I’m hot.

It’s gross. Disruptive, negative, unconstructive: exactly the sort of shit women wade through day in, day out. And we're Supposed to man whisper it; pretend there's a valid point, maybe we were strident, or a bit too feisty, or some other way of pandering

 

[Saul Goodman]

Completely patently true. And while you’ve shown yourself to be illiterate as well as a deeply inadequate human being, you may want to google parts of speech and think about the difference between rapist and rapey. Though that shows a level of reflection that you are clearly incapable of.

I never had you down for the sort of man who went all MRA on threads like this. I was wrong. Men like you are the problem.

Women like you are the reason men don't post on these threads.

 

[killer b]

Dunno if this was the best way to do it, but the idea of a 'she's out of my league filter' is probably something that should be challenged tbh. It stuck out a bit at me too. Like, men shouldn't sleaze on women in the street for a thousand reasons that are better than 'shes too hot for me.'

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Women like you are the reason men don't post on these threads.

No, men like you are the reason. I was thinking of posting something myself about the nature of body shaming in masculine roles but you've muffed it for everyone.

 

[Pickman's model]

He

doesn’t want it to end well. Whining MRA MO. They’re being nasty to me! They are all bitches! Women won’t sleep with me because feminism! I’m not a sex pest because I think I’m hot.

It’s gross. Disruptive, negative, unconstructive: exactly the sort of shit women wade through day in, day out. And we're Supposed to man whisper it; pretend there's a valid point, maybe we were strident, or a bit too feisty, or some other way of pandering

I don't think it will end well, I never do when I say that. Imo it'll end in a thread ban or a temp ban or possibly even a permaban if Saul Goodman doesn't walk away. I've enjoyed his posts on other threads but what's coming across here does him no favours and shows a side I like others here wasn't aware of.

 

[Manter]

I don't think it will end well, I never do when I say that. Imo it'll end in a thread ban or a temp ban or possibly even a permaban if Saul Goodman doesn't walk away. I've enjoyed his posts on other threads but what's coming across here does him no favours and shows a side I like others here wasn't aware of.

Interesting how many men are outed by overt discussion of feminism

 

[Manter]

Dunno if this was the best way to do it, but the idea of a 'she's out of my league filter' is probably something that should be challenged tbh. It stuck out a bit at me too. Like, men shouldn't sleaze on women in the street for a thousand reasons that are better than 'shes too hot for me.'

And I’m more than happy to have a conversation with you about it, as I suspect you’d have something intelligent to contribute.

 

[Manter]

No, men like you are the reason. I was thinking of posting something myself about the nature of body shaming in masculine roles but you've muffed it for everyone.

Ignore him. Let’s have a reasonable conversation as if that creature never happened

 

[trabuquera]

My issue is that 'men' are being dragged through the mud. It's cunts that are the problem, not 'men', and there are as many women fall under the 'cunt' category as there are men.

For posterity.
Seriously, Saul Goodman ? Seriously? Because women have human failings too, you believe sexism simply does not exist?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Pickman's model He's been suspected of it by me and other women before this. Maybe we have a radar or spidey senses for this kind if stuff.





The out of their league thing: I noticed it too not because it's not true or valid about a specific man but because it's a kind of code phrase we use amongst ourselves. Saying it here made me go "uh-oh..." because it was very likely to trigger exactly this situation.

A proportion of those men who sleaze on women in the street really are beneath contempt. They're the kind of man who gets shunned everywhere because they're nasty selfish thoughtless rude arrogant arse-holes. Their bullshit behaviour is part of every other bullshit they demonstrate. Sleazy creepy behaviour is a part of all their behaviour. I know this because when I was younger naive and kinder I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and talk to them. They're arseholes. It's not about looks it's about demeanour and attitude. And we can tell. And they know, of course they do, because men shun them too.

Those men are punching above their weight when they approach us in the street and ask us to go home with them, and they're out of their league when they try to join in with the lads in the pub too.

Women use a lot of shorthand when we discuss this stuff, of course we do because it's so familiar and we have this knowledge in common with each other.

Those losers who hassle us are only some of the men who harass us. We are harassed by men at every level, by winners and by losers. One of the things that needs to be understood here is that *even the losers* feel they have the right - and apparently the obligation - to invade our personal space and lay hands on us.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

It's not about looks.

 

[campanula]

Dunno if this was the best way to do it, but the idea of a 'she's out of my league filter' is probably something that should be challenged tbh. It stuck out a bit at me too. Like, men shouldn't sleaze on women in the street for a thousand reasons that are better than 'shes too hot for me.'

It's not about looks.

I think it is (on some level)...and the expectations for women to be attractive as well as competent, especially in a public role, is still somewhat baked-in. This does tend to reinforce opinions that women should be primarily seen as decorative, but essentially lightweight appendages...whereas men are rarely given the heave-ho because their waistline has gone south and wrinkles are appearing. Women are simply too old - while men are praised for having gravitas and experience...and this imbalance is reflected and reinforced as just another unfairness (along with equal pay).

My daughter showed me her dating site...and we were a tad amazed at the number of male posts which emphasised stomachs, biceps, 6-packs and underpant bulges...so I am not at all sure how general commodification of the body under capitalism is affecting men...

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Yes.

But the thing about "out of their league " isn't about looks. It's mostly about other stuff.

But the looks thing does need addressing too, separately.