Feminism- experiences of man-whispering and the refusal to do so...

[Mrs Miggins]

What kind of harrassment?

 

[trashpony]

What kind of harrassment?

Everything from sending them messages telling the women what they’d like to ‘do’ to them to telling them they recognised where they were camping from the photos they’d posted

I’m now in a different women only group and it’s brilliant

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Everything from sending them messages telling the women what they’d like to ‘do’ to them to telling them they recognised where they were camping from the photos they’d posted

I’m now in a different women only group and it’s brilliant

Christ.
What is wrong with the men who think this sort of thing is OK?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Christ.
What is wrong with the men who think this sort of thing is OK?

Arrogance and entitlement. Fuckers.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

Arrogance and entitlement. Fuckers.

But what is the goal of sending a woman an unsolicited message telling her want to do to her? Do they think that the woman will go "fuck yeah let's do it I'm so hot for you too!!" or is it just intimidation? Is it the exercise of power or do they think they are going to get a shag by doing that?

 

[Winot]

But what is the goal of sending a woman an unsolicited message telling her want to do to her? Do they think that the woman will go "fuck yeah let's do it I'm so hot for you too!!" or is it just intimidation? Is it the exercise of power or do they think they are going to get a shag by doing that?

It would seem to be misogyny in its purist form. They must simply hate women

 

[Mrs Miggins]

It would seem to be misogyny in its purist form. They must simply hate women

So it is just intimidation? So sad.

 

[Winot]

So it is just intimidation? So sad.

God knows. I find it very hard to process. I suspect though that they don’t particularly care about the outcome - that it’s mainly a hate-filled reaction to a woman daring to have a good time.

 

[trashpony]

God knows. I find it very hard to process. I suspect though that they don’t particularly care about the outcome - that it’s mainly a hate-filled reaction to a woman daring to have a good time.

That’s all I can think it is. It’s getting a kick out of intimidating women who dare to be independent and brave.

A lot of abusive men apparently target ‘strong’ women because there’s more of thrill in destroying them than women who are more vulnerable

 

[SheilaNaGig]

The thing is though it's not just strong women, it's every woman. The method and language and flavour and approach may very but it's every woman for sure.



This leaves me utterly mystified. When a man behaves in a way that suggests he is pursuing the woman out of some kind of desire*, even when he must know it's never ever going to happen; and in fact the more determined he appears to be, the more unlikely it becomes. Why?

*Desire to have hold harm...

Walking in the street and the "Hey baby, wanna fuck? Where are you going, want to come home with me, can I go home with you". Do you really think this is ever going to get a result? Really?

Standing in a bar/club/gig and the "So what are you doing afterwards? Wanna sit on my face? Do you have a boyfriend, where is he? Can I buy you a drink? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not?"

Mooching about on the internet " You fit/hot/seksi where do you live can I come over I'm coming over..."


etc



Why? Why? I'm baffled. You KNOW this approach doesn't work so why do you insist? Why?


Or is it like spam emails where they hit on every single woman and eventually some poor sap ends up getting sucker punched into some kind of engagement.

 

[Santino]

I think it's about entitlement and validation. Even if a man doesn't think his approach will work, he wants his feelings to be noticed and validated. His desire is in itself worthy of being known.

Something like that.

 

[trashpony]

I don’t think they think they’re going to get laid. They just hate women.

It would be interesting to hear from men that do this. I wonder if any of them will admit to doing it? Statistically, there must be a couple of blokes on here who have catcalled women at the very least

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I think it's about entitlement and validation. Even if a man doesn't think his approach will work, he wants his feelings to be noticed and validated. His desire is in itself worthy of being known.

Something like that.

Even if it's from a woman who does want anything to do with him? How does that validate him?

I'm still baffled.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I don’t think they think they’re going to get laid. They just hate women.

It would be interesting to hear from men that do this. I wonder if any of them will admit to doing it? Statistically, there must be a couple of blokes on here who have catcalled women at the very least

So why do they present it as if they "love" and want her?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I don’t think they think they’re going to get laid. They just hate women.

It would be interesting to hear from men that do this. I wonder if any of them will admit to doing it? Statistically, there must be a couple of blokes on here who have catcalled women at the very least

I was wondering that too. Do they do it and not think it's what we're talking about here? Do they assume their approach is different, that we're not really talking about them and their way of doing things? Or do we really not have any Urban men who behave in this way? If we do, I doubt they're reading this thread.

 

[Santino]

Even if it's from a woman who does want anything to do with him? How does that validate him?

I'm still baffled.

Just the expression of it, and having some kind of reaction. Having a feeling or an idea and NOT doing something about it would be unacceptable.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

So why do they present it as if they "love" and want her?

I think it's somehow "extra points" if you can convince the stupid little woman that you actually feel real feelings about her.

I also think its about having been told constantly that woman will only do it with you if they are in love. That women don't engage in sex for fun. Which is also a pile of crap.

Plus the notion of "faint heart never won fair lady" and you just have to keep on and on at on at her until she finally sees your true worth and says yes. Because how could she not? Right lads?

 

[Pickman's model]

Plus the notion of "faint heart never won fair lady" and you just have to keep on and on at on at her until she finally sees your true worth and says yes. Because how could she not? Right lads?

should be another saying along the lines of persistent boor never won fair lady either

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Just the expression of it, and having some kind of reaction. Having a feeling or an idea and NOT doing something about it would be unacceptable.

So seeing a woman passing by and feeling unseen and unheard by her is more painful than saying something and getting knocked back or belittled?

And is this something the patriarchy trains men to need?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

I think it's somehow "extra points" if you can convince the stupid little woman that you actually feel real feelings about her.

I also think its about having been told constantly that woman will only do it with you if they are in love. That women don't engage in sex for fun. Which is also a pile of crap.

Plus the notion of "faint heart never won fair lady" and you just have to keep on and on at on at her until she finally sees your true worth and says yes. Because how could she not? Right lads?

I wonder if they know they despise women? Do they think they like women? It must be dead messy inside the head of a man who behaves in this way "I hate them but I want to feel wanted by them which makes me hate them and so I have to pretend I love them, to them and also to myself".

Is it that?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

So seeing a woman passing by and feeling unseen and unheard by her is more painful than saying something and getting knocked back or belittled?

And is this something the patriarchy trains men to need?

They think it's a numbers game, keeping on with the same shitty tactic until it works. Now and again it does, so they keep doing it.

Many men are just oblivious to the world and lacking in the emotional intelligence to realise that they're being dicks. I don't know how many are being deliberately malevolent, but that must be a thing too.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

I wonder if they know they despise women? Do they think they like women? It must be dead messy inside the head of a man who behaves in this way "I hate them but I want to feel wanted by them which makes me hate them and so I have to pretend I love them, to them and also to myself".

Is it that?

I don't know. I am not sure they actually know what women are and think of women as completely "other" and not really complete, rounded human beings. I'm trying to think about this with reference to the guy I was with in NZ. He had some pretty base views about women. A fact which I only came to fully appreciate when I was already in too deep. I may or may not have a better answer later!

 

[ElizabethofYork]

The thing is though it's not just strong women, it's every woman. The method and language and flavour and approach may very but it's every woman for sure.



This leaves me utterly mystified. When a man behaves in a way that suggests he is pursuing the woman out of some kind of desire*, even when he must know it's never ever going to happen; and in fact the more determined he appears to be, the more unlikely it becomes. Why?

*Desire to have hold harm...

Walking in the street and the "Hey baby, wanna fuck? Where are you going, want to come home with me, can I go home with you". Do you really think this is ever going to get a result? Really?

Standing in a bar/club/gig and the "So what are you doing afterwards? Wanna sit on my face? Do you have a boyfriend, where is he? Can I buy you a drink? Why not? Why not? Why not? Why not?"

Mooching about on the internet " You fit/hot/seksi where do you live can I come over I'm coming over..."


etc



Why? Why? I'm baffled. You KNOW this approach doesn't work so why do you insist? Why?


Or is it like spam emails where they hit on every single woman and eventually some poor sap ends up getting sucker punched into some kind of engagement.

Oh God. And if you answer politely they think you want them. And if you ignore them you get called a frigid bitch, or worse.

 

[polly]

Sorry not to contribute intelligently but this is an excellent video of a woman responding to catcalls in New York.

 

[pinkmonkey]

That’s all I can think it is. It’s getting a kick out of intimidating women who dare to be independent and brave.

A lot of abusive men apparently target ‘strong’ women because there’s more of thrill in destroying them than women who are more vulnerable

I never considered that but it makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[RubyToogood]

A new book says married women are miserable. Don’t believe it.

Yes this was pretty much debunked on More or Less on R4 the other day. They concluded that it wasn't really possible to prove either way.

The older I get, the more marginalised I feel as a single person.

 

[Manter]

Sorry not to contribute intelligently but this is an excellent video of a woman responding to catcalls in New York.

I love that. It made me laugh and squirm

 

[Manter]

Oh God. And if you answer politely they think you want them. And if you ignore them you get called a frigid bitch, or worse.

I noticed it changes how I respond to people in public. A bloke smiled at me in the street the other day and I absent mindedly smiled back (because I was thinking about getting him in time to pick up J and I’d just come back from Yorkshire and I just wan’t in London-mode). He then followed me and kept touching my arm and trying to get me to take my headphones off. I eventually had to snarl at him to make him go away.....


.... and I kicked myself for forgetting never to engage with men in public when I am alone. Rather than blame him for having that weird entitlement to women’s time and attention thing going on.

 

[trashpony]

I love that. It made me laugh and squirm

I love it too. I saw Jon Ronson complaining that she was filming them without their consent and that it was really underhand of her

 

[Manter]

I love it too. I saw Jon Ronson complaining that she was filming them without their consent and that it was really underhand of her

That’s weirdly unreflective of him. He’s normally more thoughtful