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Feminism and the silencing of women

I read this - I wonder if this is useful advice? written by a woman, so maybe its helpful, but only if you are superior in rank I think.

What do you think?
I'm not a manager but I have to manage stakeholders. There are some who have such a thick skin that you really do have to spell it out. I can think of at least 3 individuals who would be overjoyed for their opinion to be asked but wouldn't really hear the 'because' bit and would waffle on until stopped or would pay lip service to the 'because' telling me how great they are but not actually doing anything about it. I can also think of one sensitive soul among our contractors who would think he was being bullied. Horses for courses, innit.
 
I'm not a manager but I have to manage stakeholders. There are some who have such a thick skin that you really do have to spell it out. I can think of at least 3 individuals who would be overjoyed for their opinion to be asked but wouldn't really hear the 'because' bit and would waffle on until stopped or would pay lip service to the 'because' telling me how great they are but not actually doing anything about it. I can also think of one sensitive soul among our contractors who would think he was being bullied. Horses for courses, innit.
This in spades. :rolleyes: (Not at you, Poot, at thick-skinned annoying people.)
 
I'm dealing with a lot of committee type on line meetings and there are men who, while I don't want to shut them up. I wish they would keep it brief, to the point, and save all the valuable minutiae of all their ponderings for the working groups, when they will no doubt say it all again. At length, possibly more than once.

If I'm chairing I've done the 'Sorry to interrupt Joe, but can I ask you sum up as we have a full agenda to get through' or 'sorry Joe, Jo also had her hand up and we are short on time'
Is there any way we can get you to chair certain threads? I feel like a good chair would've made a great deal of difference to the blokiness thread.
 
I must catch up with this thread. Reading the last few posts made me think about a video I saw recently, in which bell hooks and Jill Soloway are having a discussion about ending domination, after which they invite questions from the audience. Cue Man Talking Too Much About Himself And Everything (at 1:01:12), until bell hooks expertly dismisses him with more grace than I could ever muster 😆

 
Is there any way we can get you to chair certain threads? I feel like a good chair would've made a great deal of difference to the blokiness thread.
Chair a thread on blokes being blokey? Ha ha ha !
In the case of today's man-bore, I just left. The other three people in the pub group were interesting and reciprocal and funny; I would have liked chatting with them more. But man-bore was just sucking the life out of the situation, so I left.
Shame it was an interesting thread - but the man bores were so predictable and just sucked the life out of it. So like May Kasahara, I just left.

I can chat with the interesting non blokey people on other threads.
 
I read this - I wonder if this is useful advice? written by a woman, so maybe its helpful, but only if you are superior in rank I think.

What do you think?
Following Poot I think it's a good approach that probably needs support from other dynamics (eg seniority, character, org culture.....) for consistent or even significant success. It also doesn't take long to clock it as a strategy and develop evasive tactics. I also wonder why it is a simple yet somehow profound 'formula' that needs lots of practice to do right.

That's even before we consider the gendered aspects of effective interpersonal communication. The article is carefully neutral but this bit seemed like man-whispering to me.
The approach is designed to be nonthreatening, compassionate, and open-minded. It finds positivity in the way you communicate, mange, and lead, especially when you need to correct a problematic behavior.
 
What has pissed me off today? Allow me to share.

It has been identified that women need some sort of loyalty card that can point to the fact that they have all the symptoms of ovarian cancer. Because they will have been buying various indigestion remedies.

Now. The woman in the article had been to her GP with all the syptoms of ovarian cancer for two years apparently, and had been told that she had IBS. However, what she did incorrectly was that she was turning up and telling the doctor with her own lady mouth that she had indigestion and was getting through a lot of Gaviscon. Whereas what she needed for some reason was a loyalty card to do it for her.

Shop loyalty card data may help spot ovarian cancer

Because telling a doctor isn't enough to be believed apparently.
Eek! I'm awaiting an appointment for a hysteroscopy and biopsy, due to an abnormally 'bulky uterus' being spotted on a recent ultrasound.

I've been complaining about abdominal pains for around two years. I've also been using a lot of Rennies/Gaviscon. I'm 53-years-old and hadn't used them till the past couple of years.
 
Interesting research being talked about in a podcast I heard (will try to find a link) about the differences in women and men asking questions in lectures q & a. Women typically put there hand up less often and were more more likely to say something complimentary about the speakers before their their question. Apparently a short break before taking questions helped.
In public fora, men more often make statements and grandstand instead of asking questions too.
 
Think there is a perception that if one woman speaks against 5 men then thats balanced. Same applies for people of colour.

I learned a while ago from a younger non binary person who said they didn't speak at events if the panel was all white, all cis, or all men. Fortunately the event I was asking them to speak at fitted that requirement very well. I've been very conscious of this when assembled panels of speakers since.
I've recently called out an event organiser for organising three events with three white male speakers. In a major city. It was a collaboration with another organisation, and the speakers are coming via the other organisation. They replied that they had noticed and talked about it internally. And they will probably have one of their senior women staff chair/lead the conversation in one or two of the events. But still. Such lack of diversity in this day and age is appalling.

I'm getting better at calling out such bullshit though.
 
I literally had a 25 year old with two years of work experience -- and who's never done my job -- tell me that 'no, you're wrong, you should be doing your job like this.'

So with my 25 years' experience, I said (sweetly), 'Oh, I didn't realise you'd worked as x? Where was that?'

And even then he of course wouldn't concede that he didn't know anything about it. Read something in some book whose name he couldn't recall one time apparently. :rolleyes: So yeah.
Nice comeback.
 
I must catch up with this thread. Reading the last few posts made me think about a video I saw recently, in which bell hooks and Jill Soloway are having a discussion about ending domination, after which they invite questions from the audience. Cue Man Talking Too Much About Himself And Everything (at 1:01:12), until bell hooks expertly dismisses him with more grace than I could ever muster 😆


That guys "speech" was incredible. I loved the self introduction.
 
Thanks for posting that link Skim, I really enjoyed hearing bell hooks - never seen or heard them speak before, that was a far ranging and really interesting discussion very relavent to this threads topic.

That was very polite. "It was a good speech." :D
I like the way bell hooks interrupted his monologue more than once. 'Is there a question coming?' was spot on. He was unbelievable saying all that after the q+a intro expressly said keep it brief!

Thought it was interesting what bell hooks said about creating an institute to preserve her work because she couldnt trust her family to not just bin it all after her death. And no one else wanted to , so she found it necessary to do it herself. How many male authors who have been essential reading internationally would need to do that I wonder?

And how she discovered her books are out of print by accident. This links to the discussion re censorship on the Royal Dahl thread -
If it’s censorship then so is every time a publisher decides not to reprint a book.
Very difficult for a new generation to discover your work if it's all out of print.

Virago based their 80s publishing success on the reprinting of out of print books by women. Many had been effectively silenced beyond the grave for decades or hundreds of years.
 
Women killed by male hands in 2023. Interesting that the Daily Mail of all places are doing this now. Makes horrible reading.

Unsurprisingly the majority were killed by a partner/ex-partner, what is mildly surprising (to me at least) is the number killed by their sons rather than their partners.
 
Unsurprisingly the majority were killed by a partner/ex-partner, what is mildly surprising (to me at least) is the number killed by their sons rather than their partners.

Child on parent abuse is nigher than most realise, and rising. And the large majority is sons against mothers.

The violent abusive adult doesn’t pop up out of nowhere.


 
It's almost like they can't hear us saying this is not the thread for discussing femicide and violence
It's OK we've moved on. What statistics have you been surprised by? Hopefully someone else will come along to remind us how sad and shocking this all is. But not so much that it's worth digging into the links between violence and silencing.

For example, the idea that increases recorded in VAWG can be attributed to a rise in reporting rather than an increase in occurrence is one I find chilling. Not just because it suggests that a silent society is a safe one. Also because negotiating self-protectively through self-censorship is just one aspect of silencing. Quite often a tiring and upsetting one.

This thread has been good for the broader conversation. On this page alone we have age/power dynamics, manels, modern writing that continues to be 'lost' to readers in the Internet era, the usual medical misdiagnosis. Your post #592 is a very interesting addition. Also Fozzie Bear's #552

What we are doing is telling stories of commonplace, largely unreported silencing. That is less dramatic and less interesting to many, especially if they are unfamiliar with being a woman.

eta I just saw you did some thread housekeeping friendofdorothy lol :(
 
It's OK we've moved on. What statistics have you been surprised by? Hopefully someone else will come along to remind us how sad and shocking this all is. But not so much that it's worth digging into the links between violence and silencing.

For example, the idea that increases recorded in VAWG can be attributed to a rise in reporting rather than an increase in occurrence is one I find chilling. Not just because it suggests that a silent society is a safe one. Also because negotiating self-protectively through self-censorship is just one aspect of silencing. Quite often a tiring and upsetting one
Nothing about the stats surprises me. Sadly. Recall hearing years ago approx 2 women a week were murdered by men they knew. The figure of 99 seems to fit in with this. Is the femicide rate consistent?

Are there recent increases in recorded violence against women? Hasn't it always been this bad?

Not sure I would want to report any violence to the police, knowing:
How useless the police are at preventing harm
How useless they are at getting convictions.
How intrusive the process of investigation can be
And last but not least ...
How many police officers are violent misogynistic men

I'd be really surprised if more women report violence now.
 
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