Feminism and the silencing of women

[Sue]

I started work and political involvement at 16 and have learnt a lot in 50 years,

And all of us always have still more to learn, no? And that you felt:

1. Incredulity
2. Sadness
3. Mirth
4. Relief

reading the thread would kind of suggest you're hearing stuff you're not already aware of?

which includes how to detect when I am being condescended to.

Think your detectors are on the blink.

So I will now ignore this thread, hope you all enjoy yourselves

If you've read the thread, you'll understand 'enjoy' isn't really where we're at.

 

[cesare]

I fucking love it when men go on blast about women complaining about being silenced. What a treasure.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Out of order being condescending to a Man when he has Important Things To Say on a Feminism thread, definitely.

 

[muscovyduck]

I love being a man and muting a thread about the silencing of women

 

[muscovyduck]

How difficult is a response like "ok not sure I agree but I'm going to disengage from the conversation and keep reading"? I, a woman, do this all the time, because it's been taught to me from an early age to remain quiet and let men be condescending and talk authoritively even if I'm damn sure they're talking out their arse. This gets constantly reinforced through various mechanisms in my adult life and is a contributing factor towards me being silenced

 

[Sue]

Out of order being condescending to a Man when he has Important Things To Say on a Feminism thread, definitely.

Suggesting someone sticks around because they might learn stuff isn't condescending.

 

[bluescreen]

Suggesting someone sticks around because they might learn stuff isn't condescending.

It's condescending to suggest there is anything left for him to learn.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Only one of four reactions but frankly I find this whole corporate/managerial stuff really alien to me.
The relief is I have nothing to do with it…

I direct you to my wanky work speak thread.

 

[May Kasahara]

Feels relevant to this thread...

The hidden life of Camila Batmanghelidjh: why was her exoneration so widely ignored?

For 20 years, the founder of Kids Company was feted by pop stars and politicians. Then the charity collapsed and her reputation was destroyed – even after she had been vindicated in the high court

www.theguardian.com

 

[bluescreen]

Feels relevant to this thread...

The hidden life of Camila Batmanghelidjh: why was her exoneration so widely ignored?

For 20 years, the founder of Kids Company was feted by pop stars and politicians. Then the charity collapsed and her reputation was destroyed – even after she had been vindicated in the high court

www.theguardian.com

Indeed it is. A tragic story. How easy it is for the powerful to destroy someone, and something good because they're inconvenient to someone else's power base.

snippage:

Local authority social work leaders were furious at her support for a Centre for Social Justice thinktank report which graphically exposed serious shortcomings in child protection services. She did not shy from telling uncomfortable truths about child poverty to those in power. There was also a certain type of politician or policymaker, usually male, that did not take well to being told these uncomfortable truths – especially when they came from a “colourful, bombastic, engaging and creative” foreign-born woman, says one former staffer.

 

[Cloo]

Feels relevant to this thread...

The hidden life of Camila Batmanghelidjh: why was her exoneration so widely ignored?

For 20 years, the founder of Kids Company was feted by pop stars and politicians. Then the charity collapsed and her reputation was destroyed – even after she had been vindicated in the high court

www.theguardian.com

I had no idea about the exonerated either. It does feel suspiciously like if the charity were managed by a man in a grey suit no one would have gone on the attack over it.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Feels relevant to this thread...

The hidden life of Camila Batmanghelidjh: why was her exoneration so widely ignored?

For 20 years, the founder of Kids Company was feted by pop stars and politicians. Then the charity collapsed and her reputation was destroyed – even after she had been vindicated in the high court

www.theguardian.com

That's really shocking. I had absolutely no idea that she and the charity had been exonerated.

 

[tim]

I had no idea about the exonerated either. It does feel suspiciously like if the charity were managed by a man in a grey suit no one would have gone on the attack over it.

If it had been run by an uncharismatic man in a grey suit, Kids' Company wouldn't have taken off in the way that it did and upset people. Having said that charismatic and inspirational people often don't make particularly good managers.

 

[May Kasahara]

Which is why you have oversight structures such as boards of trustees, which in this case apparently did an exemplary job of helping the charity to run in a robust and compliant manner.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Which is why you have oversight structures such as boards of trustees, which in this case apparently did an exemplary job of helping the charity to run in a robust and compliant manner.

Lots of reports at the time concentrated solely on Camila B. I don't recall much about trustees at the time. I recall the gist in the media reporting at the time was the charity grew too big, too fast and that blame was placed mostly on Camila B who it was said had personal charisma and some sort of unearned reputation with politicians and funders.

There was lots written about her colourful clothing style too.

 

[May Kasahara]

Absolutely. Being a loud, colourful, foreign woman was a huge factor here. I just wanted to add that bit about the trustees in case tim's comment was suggesting that there was poor management anywhere in this particular case (which it may well not have been!)

My husband worked at Kids Company for a while. He said it was an amazing place focused on actually helping the kids that all those politicians who cosied up to Camila would have characterised as thugs, criminals, bad elements, hopeless cases. A complex, responsive and compassionate place.

 

[bluescreen]

I hope the National Portrait Gallery puts this picture back on display.

Camila Batmanghelidjh - National Portrait Gallery

by Dean Marsh oil on plywood panel 2008 © National Portrait Gallery, London

www.npg.org.uk

 

[Cloo]

Thought this was a good article that was relevant here: No, Women Should Not Set Themselves on Fire to Keep Others Warm

I liked her point that kindness and supportiveness and positivity aren't bad things - but they shouldn't be 'feminine' things.

 

[Epona]

I hope the National Portrait Gallery puts this picture back on display.

Camila Batmanghelidjh - National Portrait Gallery

by Dean Marsh oil on plywood panel 2008 © National Portrait Gallery, London

www.npg.org.uk

Might be worth sending them an email to ask/request that they put it on display, I'll do the same when I have a moment.
I only knew she had been exonerated because I saw brief mention of it somewhere, that has certainly not been as well publicised as her downfall.

 

[RubyToogood]

I encountered a monologuer again today. I also realised that he monologues at me pretty much every time I see him on the SAME subject, which is how bad he is at X, and that my job in this conversation is to boost his ego and tell him that no actually he is great at it.

I made my excuses and left - once I was able to get a word in edgeways. I don't really care any more if people men think they've offended me in some way because they fucking have actually.

 

[friendofdorothy]

I encountered a monologuer again today. I also realised that he monologues at me pretty much every time I see him on the SAME subject, which is how bad he is at X, and that my job in this conversation is to boost his ego and tell him that no actually he is great at it.

I made my excuses and left - once I was able to get a word in edgeways. I don't really care any more if people men think they've offended me in some way because they fucking have actually.

Good! The 'once you get a word in' bit is a problem. Need to develop strategies to escape before he wastes so much of your time.

I have male friend who tends to monologue and I've got good at saying 'hang on, not now....' and 'I've got to go...' I've put the phone down when he's mid sentance many a time. But I actually like him, which helps, he means well even if he can talk the the hind legs off a donkey with occasional mansplaining.

 

[Knotted]

Monologuing is often an autistic thing (though not the needy monologuing RubyToogood is talking about).

 

[Magnus McGinty]

My kid talks excessively which is an ADHD symptom.

 

[mango5]

I don't imagine your kid is anything like what is being discussed here. Unless your kid is a grown man whose likeable aspects outweigh the overtalking.

 

[Cloo]

I encountered a monologuer again today. I also realised that he monologues at me pretty much every time I see him on the SAME subject, which is how bad he is at X, and that my job in this conversation is to boost his ego and tell him that no actually he is great at it.

I made my excuses and left - once I was able to get a word in edgeways. I don't really care any more if people men think they've offended me in some way because they fucking have actually.

Fishing for an ego boost is truly cringe-inducing behaviour.

And yes, more men need to know they have offended us actually - and what's more that there is damn good reason for that offense.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

A male writer from The New Statesman having a good go at JK Rowling.

JK Rowling, Britain’s gloriously nasty novelist

Her electric Robert Galbraith novels portray a Britain populated by paedophiles, domestic abusers, rapists and terrorists.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[muscovyduck]

 

[muscovyduck]

A male writer from The New Statesman having a good go at JK Rowling.

JK Rowling, Britain’s gloriously nasty novelist

Her electric Robert Galbraith novels portray a Britain populated by paedophiles, domestic abusers, rapists and terrorists.

www.newstatesman.com

What's your point?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Um, the thread title maybe.

 

[muscovyduck]

Um, the thread title maybe.

Criticism against someone who happens to be a woman isn't silencing women. Making a lazy attempt to derail a thread about misogyny by dropping an article about JK Rowling and not explaining why it's relevant is silencing women though. Great game, better luck next time!