Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[cesare]

You can't find anyone here who wants to ban social media, so let's leave that straw man.

Having controls on media is necessary for democracy to function. In print media, I used to choose and publish the letters page for local newspaper titles. You didn't publish the first ten letters out of the bag, you didn't publish even potentially libelous stuff, you didn't publish anything blatantly untrue, or potentially untrue that you couldn't get a definitive answer on, you didn't publish anything that was outdated by events, you didn't publish any swear words, green ink letters, racism, sexism or personal criticisms of local councillors. And there would be many.

This is invigilating content according to well-held legal frameworks that aim to at least reign in the power of the media, and prevent the kind of Wild West that Twitter has become.

The editor of a newspaper is ultimately responsible for everything that goes in it. Even if it's a libelous letter written by someone else, or a court story that names a protected person written by someone else, or a child being identified in a photo without consent, taken by someone else.

It's the editor who takes the rap. Hence they're careful. And Musk is that editor.

You would uphold those.principles, because failure to.do.so. could bring your employer down. Rightly.

But what if your employer couldn't give a FF and had enough money/power not to.be bound by these rules? The Editor doesn't care?

 

[cesare]

You mean besides CS, who said it, and who I was responding to.

Yes, your point was directed to CS rather than generally.

 

[krtek a houby]

what twitter needs is to have Musk run out of it, and be run by the people

 

[cesare]

what twitter needs is to have Musk run out of it, and be run by the people

The people would tear each other apart

 

[Wookey]

You mean besides CS, who said it, and who I was responding to.

No, they said they personally would ban it in the UK as long as Musk was the owner.

That's all kinds of specific conditions there, that you are missing in your recollection of what he said. You've boiled it down to "urban is shockingly not the anarchists haven I thought it was" and shouted at clouds banning social media, like that genie is ever going back in the bottle, when in fact one person has said they personally would rather Musk wasn't the owner of the platform. I agree with their assessment.

Why don't you?

 

[Epona]

No, they said they personally would ban it in the UK as long as Musk was the owner.

That's all kinds of specific conditions there, that you are missing in your recollection of what he said. You've boiled it down to "urban is shockingly not the anarchists haven I thought it was" and shouted at clouds banning social media, like that genie is ever going back in the bottle, when in fact one person has said they personally would rather Musk wasn't the owner of the platform. I agree with their assessment.

Why don't you?

This is what he said. I've screenshotted it because everyone seems to be forgetting that it happened 20 or so pages back.

I was not pulling it out of thin air when I started to talk about people on here who wanted to ban Shitter.

A poster actually said it, I did not make it up or pull it out of my own arse.

My responses have been to this.

 

[cesare]

My hand's up.for.keeping the thread content to the thread title. Anyone agree?

 

[cesare]

I can't see your screenshot Epona

 

[Epona]

My hand's up.for.keeping the thread content to the thread title. Anyone agree?

Yeah if people want to have this destruction of democracy convo in another thread then go for it, I agree it's not the right place.
This thread should probably be split into another for current/known actions that need to be opposed also.

 

[Wookey]

You would uphold those.principles, because failure to.do.so. could bring your employer down. Rightly.

But what if your employer couldn't give a FF and had enough money/power not to.be bound by these rules? The Editor doesn't care?

The editor is liable, in the first instance. You might also sue the publisher, and the printer, but the person going to prison for contempt of court by breaking reporting restrictions in print, is the editor.

Not the journo. Not the board. Not the chief exec. It's the editor.

Musk is that editor.

 

[BigMoaner]

That Dempsey chap seemed to know somewhat the score. Twitter always had a reasonable rep under him. I liked the fact that he kept out of everything and just gave a few interviews. Run a good website that folk enjoy and find value from and sit back and keep yourself out of it. I like that as an aesthetic or something.

Musk:

 

[GarveyLives]

Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder​

Is this part of the ongoing white supremacist rioting in a number of English towns and cities - presumably by people who "want their graveyards back", or just "usual" "everyday" racism, or simply something else?:

Council Leader and police issue joint statement on desecration of Gravestones at Burnley Cemetery

 

[BigMoaner]

My hand's up.for.keeping the thread content to the thread title. Anyone agree?

Yep my latest was my last!

 

[cesare]

Yeah if people want to have this destruction of democracy convo in another thread then go for it, I agree it's not the right place.
This thread should probably be split into another for current/known actions that need to be opposed also.

Having a thread about social media would be great I think. This one is a subset of that. I've no idea how to achieve that (if everyone agrees). Perhaps involve a mod?

 

[Epona]

I can't see your screenshot Epona

Can you still not see it after an F5?
I switched ISPs yesterday so am now worried there might be some issue that I've not yet been aware of!

 

[cesare]

The editor is liable, in the first instance. You might also sue the publisher, and the printer, but the person going to prison for contempt of court by breaking reporting restrictions in print, is the editor.

Not the journo. Not the board. Not the chief exec. It's the editor.

Musk is that editor.

Yes. But the point is that he has sufficient money and power not to give a flying fuck.

 

[cesare]

Can you still not see it after an F5?
I switched ISPs yesterday so am now worried there might be some issue that I've not yet been aware of!

I'll check in the morning when I can get to my PC. I'm on my phone atm

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I can't see your screenshot @Epona

I switched ISPs yesterday so am now worried there might be some issue that I've not yet been aware of!

i can see the screen shot, but it's not very easy to read.

the quote is still on this thread - not sure why it's not just being quoted, but i won't...

 

[Epona]

I'll check in the morning when I can get to my PC. I'm on my phone atm

lmk by PM if there's still an issue, I am not fully confident that everything is up and running on my end yet and if a snippet isn't posting then there might be an issue.
I might try to post a cat photo on the cat thread too, see if that works.

 

[YouSir]

I made a thread if anyone's interested... Social Media and Current Events

 

[YouSir]

lmk by PM if there's still an issue, I am not fully confident that everything is up and running on my end yet and if a snippet isn't posting then there might be an issue.
I might try to post a cat photo on the cat thread too, see if that works.

I can see it.

 

[Epona]

i can see the screen shot, but it's not very easy to read.

the quote is still on this thread - not sure why it's not just being quoted, but i won't...

Too difficult to find, I sometimes take a snippet of stuff I might want to refer back to.

 

[Wookey]

Having a thread about social media would be great I think. This one is a subset of that. I've no idea how to achieve that (if everyone agrees). Perhaps involve a mod?

Is it really possible to have a thread about the far right response in Southport, and the ongoing unrest, without discussing the social media triggers of that, the SM disinformation, and the way it's now being used to activate and organise elsewhere by the racists themselves. And also by our side!

It's a key player in all of this, I think.

 

[cesare]

lmk by PM if there's still an issue, I am not fully confident that everything is up and running on my end yet and if a snippet isn't posting then there might be an issue.
I might try to post a cat photo on the cat thread too, see if that works.

I'll check it out in the morning x It's probably a problem at me end because.phone not pc.

 

[YouSir]

Is it really possible to have a thread about the far right response in Southport, and the ongoing unrest, without discussing the social media triggers of that, the SM disinformation, and the way it's now being used to activate and organise elsewhere by the racists themselves. And also by our side!

It's a key player in all of this, I think.

Discussion =/= News

Reckon this thread is best kept for the latter tbh.

 

[moochedit]

The editor is liable, in the first instance. You might also sue the publisher, and the printer, but the person going to prison for contempt of court by breaking reporting restrictions in print, is the editor.

Not the journo. Not the board. Not the chief exec. It's the editor.

Musk is that editor.

Yeah but he is not in the uk.

 

[Wookey]

Discussion =/= News

Reckon this thread is best kept for the latter tbh.

This is a discussion site. If I want news, honestly I'll go to a news site.

And for someone who isn't wearing a mod's badge, you're doing some heavy editorial lifting here, and it's not even your thread.

These events have all been started by the misuse of social media, the crimes are being organised using social media, riots are being advertised on social media, and the owner of the largest of these brands is now predicting a race-based civil war in my country. On social media.

It's not a nerds discussion, it's integral to understanding, and potentially avoiding the worst effects of the very vehicle that has been used to trigger and perpetuate the shitshow we're seeing.

I don't need to say anything more about it, but I won't be told not to say anything about, by a self-appointed tidy-upperer.

There might be other discussions to be had of course. That's great. Nobody is about to run out of ink.

 

[cesare]

Gently suggesting could leave this to the morning.

 

[Serge Forward]

Blast from the past. Looks like they're all off to Borstal Ministers prepare extra 500 prison places to remand suspected rioters

From next week, cells will be used at the newly repurposed HMP Cookham Wood, a former young offender institution in the village of Borstal in Kent, that was closed in March after it was called “inhumane” by a prison watchdog.

 

[miktheword]

Funnily enough, I was listening to some reporting on Radio 4, a reporter mentioned talking to a woman in... Rotherham, perhaps? ...who was participating in a protest against asylum seekers in hotels, who was saying that she needed a dentist and couldn't find an NHS dentist, and she was complaining about all the public money being spent on housing asylum seekers in hotels.

So the right-wing messaging is very effective, it's working, ie the NHS (or housing or education or whatever) in this country is falling apart and it's all their (the immigrants') fault, it's not the fault of the previous right-wing government that implemented a cruel austerity agenda, bunged billions to their mates while making the poor poorer and cutting public services to the bone.

Yeah it's always been thus I think; we've had the harder arguments to counter from the simpler 'they're all taking our jobs' shit of the 80s to an argument I heard in the last week that it's moved beyond that now, it's more that immigrants are a clear and present danger to your kids.
With regard to the former, I've been thinking about economic arguments as to how to counter it. Scenarios such as if all refugees and asylum seekers were gone, would you get a dental appointment any cheaper or quicker? would your train fares be lower? would any less shit be in your rivers, would billions of off shored tax evasion be paid? etc
The economic stuff still seems prevalent though, even the auditor of Rotherham was trying to rationalise that this is not due to racism but referenced the cuts to winter fuel allowance in her commentary.
Apologies if this has been addressed in later posts, I'm 20 pages behind.