Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[YouSir]

The top of what?
I don't see any of this.

Click the "Following" tab.

The top responses to the BBC Breaking News account post.

 

[Humberto]

I mean if this is 'I like twitter because I get something out of twitter' doesn't really tell us much. No offence E.

 

[cesare]

I don't think it should be banned either, but I do think that whilst people (including Musk) are monetising all this (and using it to flex in elections via influence and data mining) that they should be held accountable in at least the same way that a private individual, a newspaper or a pub would be if they benefited financially from the organization and dissemination of hate speech and/or criminal activity in their homes / papers / establishment.

Your point about voter influence and data mining is apparently a significant issue atm, an investigation underway but not directly X, a different Musk brand by the sounds of it.

 

[Epona]

I mean if this is 'I like twitter because I get something out of twitter' doesn't really tell us much. No offence E.

Seems to me more like people don't know how to use twitter to get news about stuff they are interested in, rather than finding themselves in the mire.
We should try to educate people instead of wanting a government ban.

(And although some of you have said several times that you don't want a government ban, when you say it should be banned, who are you expecting to do the banning or restriction? Because it won't be us).

 

[moochedit]

I don't think it should be banned either, but I do think that whilst people (including Musk) are monetising all this (and using it to flex in elections via influence and data mining) that they should be held accountable in at least the same way that a private individual, a newspaper or a pub would be if they benefited financially from the organization and dissemination of hate speech and/or criminal activity in their homes / papers / establishment.

Yeah musk is a cunt. Problem is "x" is hosted in america and musk lives there. I'm not certain if twitter has an office or any other assets in the uk? So i'm not sure what the uk could do about it apart from making uk isp's block it (which a vpn could get round) or maybe ban uk companies advertising on it.
(Not advocating anything myself)

 

[Epona]

Yeah musk is a cunt. Problem is "x" is hosted in america and musk lives there. I'm not certain if twitter has an office or any other assets in the uk? So i'm not sure what the uk could do about it apart from making uk isp's block it (which a vpn could get round) or maybe ban uk companies advertising on it.
(Not advocating anything myself)

I just don't feel like this should be where our effort and wishes for change go.
It makes utterly no sense to me

 

[BigMoaner]

Not sure it’s necessarily how individuals use and manage their twitter feed but the overall structure of the whole thing and its effect on the collective consciousness that is. What it does to us and democracy is the real question I think rather than what appears at each persons feed. I am not on twitter but if I kind of imagine it I just sense this mass of complexity and emotional charge and people who check it 100s of times a day. It’s a hugely complex thing to pick apart, and has a hugely complex affect id think on humanity. The way I manage my feed is to not have one at all and that works for me. There are philosophers and theoriests etc who are really trying to get a hold on these important questions re SM and that is desperately needed in my view as it will trickle through to even perhaps the people who design and make this stuff. It’s not as simple as ban or no ban, my feed is okay so therefor twitter is okay, etc.

 

[cesare]

I just don't feel like this should be where our effort and wishes for change go.
It makes utterly no sense to me

No-one sensible would put any effort or place any importance on X.

 

[moochedit]

No-one sensible would put any effort or place any importance on X.

Mp's, journalists and celebs love it which is why it gets so much press attention. Far more "normal" people use facebook.

 

[Epona]

Not sure it’s necessarily how individuals use and manage their twitter feed but the overall structure of the whole thing and its effect on the collective consciousness that is. What it does to us and democracy is the real question I think rather than what appears at each persons feed. I am not on twitter but if I kind of imagine it I just sense this mass of complexity and emotional charge and people who check it 100s of times a day. It’s a hugely complex thing to pick apart, and has a hugely complex affect id think on humanity. The way I manage my feed is to not have one at all and that works for me. There are philosophers and theoriests etc who are really trying to get a hold on these important questions re SM and that is desperately needed in my view as it will trickle through to even perhaps the people who design and make this stuff. It’s not as simple as ban or no ban, my feed is okay so therefor twitter is okay, etc.

What about Youtube?

If you just set it off playing a video that you picked from your search term and leaving the autoplay next button clicked, the stuff you are offered gets more and more right wing and you'll probably end up at some Rogan video after an hour or two of leaving it to autoplay.

Does that mean it should be banned?

 

[cesare]

Mp's, journalists and celebs love it which is why it gets so much press attention. Far more "normal" people use facebook.

I feel the same about FB. Not on it.

 

[moochedit]

I just don't feel like this should be where our effort and wishes for change go.
It makes utterly no sense to me

I wasn't advocating it. I also think it would be a mistake although i do understand why people are angry with musk/twitter.

 

[Wookey]

Seems to me more like people don't know how to use twitter to get news about stuff they are interested in, rather than finding themselves in the mire.
We should try to educate people instead of wanting a government ban.

(And although some of you have said several times that you don't want a government ban, when you say it should be banned, who are you expecting to do the banning or restriction? Because it won't be us).

Nobody has said it should be banned, you're shouting at clouds here. Two people have said Musk be banned as owner, and one said he should be fined as publisher, until he either stops incitement to hate crime and stays within the law, or his UK operation costs him more money than it makes.

Tricking the algorithms into giving you knitting patterns is great, but it's not addressing the actual problem, which is the publication for profit of the organisation of hate crimes.

 

[moochedit]

I feel the same about FB. Not on it.

Fair enough but sadly many other people do use them and are influenced.

 

[BigMoaner]

What about Youtube?

If you just set it off playing a video that you picked from your search term and leaving the autoplay next button clicked, the stuff you are offered gets more and more right wing and you'll probably end up at some Rogan video after an hour or two of leaving it to autoplay.

Does that mean it should be banned?

No. do I think we should have more understanding of these platforms then yes. I don’t think they should be seen as these neutral fun things that have no affect on how things currently are, i think they have a massive effect. Trying to work out whether it’s net good or bad though is beyond my grey matter.

 

[Epona]

I wasn't advocating it. I also think it would be a mistake although i do understand why people are angry with musk/twitter.

Oh no it was clear you weren't advocating it, my quoting you was more along the lines of backing up what you said rather than disagreeing with it

 

[moochedit]

Oh no it was clear you weren't advocating it, my quoting you was more along the lines of backing up what you said rather than disagreeing with it

Fair enough

 

[Humberto]

What about Youtube?

If you just set it off playing a video that you picked from your search term and leaving the autoplay next button clicked, the stuff you are offered gets more and more right wing and you'll probably end up at some Rogan video after an hour or two of leaving it to autoplay.

Does that mean it should be banned?

Musk has a heavy editorial influence on X. You Tube is owned by Google, and my recent experience after clicking on a couple of tenuously related videos is that I'm being almost bombarded by Tommy Robinson videos and the like.

Now most of us here can recognise that for what it is. But can most 14/15 year olds?

 

[Epona]

Nobody has said it should be banned, you're shouting at clouds here. Two people have said Musk be banned as owner, and one said he should be fined as publisher, until he either stops incitement to hate crime and stays within the law, or his UK operation costs him more money than it makes.

Tricking the algorithms into giving you knitting patterns is great, but it's not addressing the actual problem, which is the publication for profit of the organisation of hate crimes.

I'm not shouting at clouds, it's called having a debate.

 

[krtek a houby]

Used twitter to catch up, follow and learn on various things

Star Wars, BLM, antifascism, activism, LGBT, writers, journalists, jazz, Irish and more.

Right wing stuff, in terms of engagement, would crop up. Especially if you were commenting on police brutality, racism, sectarianism, homophobia and (yes) Star Wars.

This was all before Musk arrived. That was the final straw.

So am trying not to click on his disinformation platform. Even though it can be useful for reporting by activists and left commentators.

 

[YouSir]

No. do I think we should have more understanding of these platforms then yes. I don’t think they should be seen as these neutral fun things that have no affect on how things currently are, i think they have a massive effect. Trying to work out whether it’s net good or bad though is beyond my grey matter.

I'd definitely say a net negative. The centralisation of the internet has been a pretty horrific process as far as information consumption and communication has gone. Sure, we're all sitting here using a relic from an earlier age which, for all its faults, represents a massively better model imo. It's like the curated experience Epona is talking about, with the more decentralised, independent model you have to seek out things you want, not just be fed them by an algorithm which may be biased, bigoted or just shit.

 

[YouSir]

Used twitter to catch up, follow and learn on various things

Star Wars, BLM, antifascism, activism, LGBT, writers, journalists, jazz, Irish and more.

Right wing stuff, in terms of engagement, would crop up. Especially if you were commenting on police brutality, racism, sectarianism, homophobia and (yes) Star Wars.

This was all before Musk arrived. That was the final straw.

So am trying not to click on his disinformation platform. Even though it can be useful for reporting by activists and left commentators.

Try BlueSky, it's far, far smaller but does push you to curate your own network more.

 

[Epona]

We should all go back to using a Gestetner to propogate information, the world was much better then.

 

[cesare]

I'm not shouting at clouds, it's called having a debate.

Yes, I don't think you're shouting at clouds fwiw.

There's a good debate to be had about Social Media and its effect on us all, individually and collectively. And freedom of speech. And freedom of response.

There's an overlap for sure re political organising and state intervention.

 

[YouSir]

We should all go back to using a Gestetner to propogate information, the world was much better then.

The internet as a truly popular platform has existed for, what, 30-35 years? Major centralisation and now algorithmic guidance as means of navigating that for less (and considerably less) than half of that perhaps. I joke about something like forums being a relic but they're really an incredibly new innovation in themselves. They aren't the decaying ancestor of social media as we have it, they're a potentially competing method of communication.

This is drifting a bit now though so I won't add more clutter to this thread.

 

[Wookey]

I'm not shouting at clouds, it's called having a debate.

You can't find anyone here who wants to ban social media, so let's leave that straw man.

Having controls on media is necessary for democracy to function. In print media, I used to choose and publish the letters page for local newspaper titles. You didn't publish the first ten letters out of the bag, you didn't publish even potentially libelous stuff, you didn't publish anything blatantly untrue, or potentially untrue that you couldn't get a definitive answer on, you didn't publish anything that was outdated by events, you didn't publish any swear words, green ink letters, racism, sexism or personal criticisms of local councillors. And there would be many.

This is invigilating content according to well-held legal frameworks that aim to at least reign in the power of the media, and prevent the kind of Wild West that Twitter has become.

The editor of a newspaper is ultimately responsible for everything that goes in it. Even if it's a libelous letter written by someone else, or a court story that names a protected person written by someone else, or a child being identified in a photo without consent, taken by someone else.

It's the editor who takes the rap. Hence they're careful. And Musk is that editor.

 

[BigMoaner]

We should all go back to using a Gestetner to propogate information, the world was much better then.

This is such a classic Silicon Valley type argument, shuts down all debate about what are currently some of the most powerful corporate entities in the world. Anyway agree, debates for other threads perhaps.

 

[Epona]

You can't find anyone here who wants to ban social media, so let's leave that straw man.

You mean besides CS, who said it, and who I was responding to.

 

[Dogsauce]

The top of what?
I don't see any of this.

Click the "Following" tab.

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not what you see, it’s what many others see and what is pushed at them, and how they respond to this. If the content wasn’t promoted as it is then it would reach less eyes, and ultimately fewer Asian-owned shops get torched.

 

[Wookey]

Of course, what Musk needs is a huge army of well-trained invigilator types, with a ban finger.

Like there used to be, before he was able to buy the entire platform and sack them all.