Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder
- Thread starter Agrippa57
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Many years ago Spymaster decided he'd oppose whatever I supported and so here we are
What I mean is, 'woke' is a term for 'anything I don't like'. Sheffield United are woke. Meat is woke. Haemorrhoids are woke. and so on.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
As long as cthulhu isn't woke it's ok
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Good post. Just to add to that, the UK's record for taking in refugees is dismal when compared to other countries of similar wealth. Has been for decades.I'm actually going to give this a proper response.
We don't have unfettered immigration, which is the current right wing belief. Its false though.
Net migration to the UK - Migration Observatory
An overview of net migration in the UK – defined as the difference between immigration and emigration of people moving for at least a year.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
Only 14% of people in this country were born outside of the UK. This is generally in-line with our neighbours and below many of our allies including Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Belgium, Sweden, and Ireland where as much as 20% of the population can be born outside of their nations.
Asylum Migration is incredibly low, the majority are students (who are largely temporary) and those who are here on work visas. Breaking it down, the article shows Non-EU Migration but its representative.
Highest is work visas at 423,000 - these will require a sponsorship - so have obtained a sponsored employment position with a business or organisation that follows UK employment visa regulations such as filling in-demand industries, generally require a high level degree unless in specific critical demand industries such as healthcare. The critical demand list is flexible and changes regularly, outside of that you need to be highly qualified and have a sponsored job offer which is selective and hard. They also need the means to sustain themselves.
Next are students at 379,000, who for some weird ass reason became a target for immigration criticism. You want us to have a world class education system but they whinge about students. They are here to study, have to have an offer and sponsorship from a UK University, and have to have their annual course fees and living costs in the bank as part of their visa application. Thats between £30,000 and £60,000 per year depending upon the university. There is the work transition option but thats selective and the vast majority leave after study, only 8% stay on a grad visa and 11% on skilled worker routes (i.e. high demand/healthcare). This number fluctuates wildly year on year too.
Your 700k per year, well near 400k are students who are here for between 1-3 years. Its dense as hell.
Everything else, so asylum, marriage/couples/family, and other are between 20,000 and 80,000. Marriage and Couples Visas have high income attachments so are more for wealthy people, bringing family is not automatic so family visas are also restrictive.
So what are people moaning at? That we have a lot of work visas? Then educate more people and promote those industries. Its expensive to sponsor visas, most companies don't. Too many students? Idiotic. Asylum? Small minority. Couples? thats already discriminatory and a small minority. Family, also highly restrictive and a tiny minority.
You just answered your own question.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
There are people here who agree with you. Intolerant people who can't accept the fact that someone who disagrees with you could be anything but a troll or far-right. They're idiots.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Not just that, tbf. But partly.
Boo Radley75
Well-Known Member
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I think you'll find the 'silent majority'ites will nearly always believe 1. there's too much immigration nowadays and therefore 2. our way of life is under threat. But cannot define 'our way of life' except in the vaguest terms, cannot say how much immigration would be acceptable, cannot say how our society would manage without quite a lot of it, do not acknowledge that as an island we comprise several nations full of immigrants and the children of immigrants (eg angles and saxons lol), and do not suggest their kids could do those low-skill jobs immigrants sometimes overwhelmingly do.
Therefore I'm not convinced such people really understand the ramifications of what they espouse. I am convinced it's a set of beliefs held together by emotion far more than reason or any grasp of facts, and this is why it's so immune to 'argument'.
This is my opinion, grown over long years of engagement online and in real places, with many people who would certainly consider themselves 'silent majority' and consider themselves broadly apolitical / small-c conservative / 'normal'. I'm not just pulling it out of my arse and suspect it will resonate with others here**.
**feelings not facts, here we are
Maybe not but IMO anyone calling someone else a moron, whether seriously or as a joke, should probably already have disengaged from the exchange. Doing that kind of thing is only a way to make someone feel shit from talking to you, which is just .. well, shit.
This is all before the history of the word 'moron'. Personally I don't think a word like that, because of its history as a word used to justify cruelty and ridicule by the more able towards the less able, should be acceptable. In it's way it's as bad as any racial slur.
Understanding this is too woke, for a noisy minority of morons who just don't give a fuck. It's on them.
I don't think supporting a national sports team (if we have to have them which apparently we bloody do) has anything to do with the kind of toxic nationalism that sees neighbourhoods terrorised. It certainly doesn't need to, it's a shame the two have been conflated - and let's not forget, conflated in part by the thugs themselves. Cui bono? The racist bullies draped in flags, (various kinds to choose from)
Not everyone who supports an England sports team yells ENNGERRLUND drunkenly in the street and throws shit about.
I feel a mildness protest coming on...
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YouSir
Retired from Urban
Which is the value of it. The people who pushed it into common parlance from the Right used to be quite obvious in using it as an overt attack on minority rights and progressive causes, now it's ubiquitous and when they call racial equality, trans rights, immigrant rights or anything else 'woke', well, everyone hates woke stuff don't they? Nothing controversial in that, only a 'woke' libtard would have any issues with that sort of language.
They're trying the same now with DEI in the US, normalise it as a derogatory term and you gain cultural cover for what you really mean by it and who can object? Everyone says it, perfectly normal.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Not just the US, the DEI bit. It was a mainstream Tory right attack on the UK public sector too, even if couched in cost-saving terms.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
How many of the anti-fascist left, centre or right are you actually familiar with?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I think we need to make allowances for Spy he is a bit ... unique
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
your post is utterly incoherent
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
There’s an anti-fascist right?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I can give you two ideas to get you started, to be implemented immediately.
Britain to take in more refugees. A lot more. Double the current number would be a decent start.
Wealth restrictions on reuiniting families to be completely abolished.
I would go a lot further. Build a common travel area spread as far and wide as possible. Commonwealth countries and the rest of Europe would be a start. It is a sign of how far to the extreme this debate's 'overton window' has been moved that that might sound radical. But we had something very much like the former up to 1962 and something very much like the latter up to 2019.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I feel bad for the poor people of Stockport these last few days
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
now it seems teuchter's nicked your login
YouSir
Retired from Urban
I've no idea if you're Far Right, I do know that you're eagerly normalising their language - which they use specifically as a tool of bigotry - and calling anyone who's aware of that (very recent history) a Left Wing extremist.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It can seem so at times. He frequently makes a lot of sense.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
I just don’t see why you insist on putting the word wokeness into what is otherwise a perfectly reasonable point. Although I don’t quite get why anyone would be concerned about preserving national pride - it’s endemic and doesn’t appear to be under any threat at all, however silly it is.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Southport.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no other comment could persuade me so entirely that that the security of your login has been breached
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
"Wokeness" is only there because Mojo put it into the first post I responded to (#459).
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
You could helpfully have mentioned that a few pages ago.
klang
klang
Yes but the stockporters have been getting a bad rep too recently
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
My apologies.
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