Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
we've already had the measure of you and what you say about trust here seems to put the seal on it.
Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder
- Thread starter Agrippa57
- Start date
Also, Antifa aren't ACAB either are they? Thats a very specific subset of people - and often aren't all that aligned to any particular progressive cause.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
we're uncovering silas loom's real face and it's as pretty as you'd imagine
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
you don't think anti-fascism is a progressive cause?
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
No, you're right; I was specifically referring to the dozen or so people I've heard this week on the radio urgently promoting far-right talking points in the same breath as complaining that people call them far right. Also the hosts not pointing this out to them.
klang
klang
Thats more or less what i meant with 'the moderate right is doing just fine with rioting fash'
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Not at all. Clearly there are a multitude of ideas as to what constitutes acceptable immigration, from the open borders stuff we see espoused on here occasionally, to the 'deport the foreigners' brigade and everything in between. There will be differing views on these boards, let alone outwith them.
Same answer. On another thread this morning one poster chastised another for using the word "moron" as being intellectually disablist. Personally, I think that's woke bollocks and modern life is littered with similar examples. People who laugh at such silliness are not necessarily far right.
Again, that's your view (and mine, tbh) but it's a particularly intolerant position to take, to label those who take an element of pride in their nation or its endeavours, as far right. There are lots of people even on U75 who'll get behind the England sports teams etc.
I've got green eyes btw and we're by far the best minority, i think we need our own political partynobody would laugh at that now, would they?
I'd vote for you despite having brown eyes. Wokeness gone mad!
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I usually think of them as self appointed community leaders. Eyes swivelling as they sniff out grants.
YouSir
Retired from Urban
The whole narrative of 'woke bollocks' is an import from the US Right. Even if you think some peoples issues with stuff like language is daft you're still picking up on the language of people who absolutely aren't laughing at it because they're usually busy trying to push violently reactionary politics.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Support for the authorities removing British passports from those with dual citizenship is a very bad idea, even for people we hate. If they did it to TR/SYL, they'd sure as shit do it to people on the left. I'm disappointed to see so many people in favour of it.
klang
klang
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
say what you want about syl but at least he's not a banned returner here. don't think he is anyway
YouSir
Retired from Urban
I'm not advocating for it with TR but the idea that they wouldn't do it to people on the Left anyway is a weird one. The state isn't waiting on permission to use oppressive powers, it's waiting for opportunity.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'm just remembering the Met copper who was a member of National Action. Thats a genuine no fuzziness fascist group- not church n king mob with ideas but far more ideologically committed. How riddled do we recon the police are? not the thread for it I suppose but I have my suspicions.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Once again, this is a defensive far-left extremist position that's meaningless to those situated around the less insane part of the political spectrum.
I'm actually going to give this a proper response.
We don't have unfettered immigration, which is the current right wing belief. Its false though.
Net migration to the UK - Migration Observatory
An overview of net migration in the UK – defined as the difference between immigration and emigration of people moving for at least a year.
Only 14% of people in this country were born outside of the UK. This is generally in-line with our neighbours and below many of our allies including Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Belgium, Sweden, and Ireland where as much as 20% of the population can be born outside of their nations.
Asylum Migration is incredibly low, the majority are students (who are largely temporary) and those who are here on work visas. Breaking it down, the article shows Non-EU Migration but its representative.
Highest is work visas at 423,000 - these will require a sponsorship - so have obtained a sponsored employment position with a business or organisation that follows UK employment visa regulations such as filling in-demand industries, generally require a high level degree unless in specific critical demand industries such as healthcare. The critical demand list is flexible and changes regularly, outside of that you need to be highly qualified and have a sponsored job offer which is selective and hard. They also need the means to sustain themselves.
Next are students at 379,000, who for some weird ass reason became a target for immigration criticism. You want us to have a world class education system but they whinge about students. They are here to study, have to have an offer and sponsorship from a UK University, and have to have their annual course fees and living costs in the bank as part of their visa application. Thats between £30,000 and £60,000 per year depending upon the university. There is the work transition option but thats selective and the vast majority leave after study, only 8% stay on a grad visa and 11% on skilled worker routes (i.e. high demand/healthcare). This number fluctuates wildly year on year too.
Your 700k per year, well near 400k are students who are here for between 1-3 years. Its dense as hell.
Everything else, so asylum, marriage/couples/family, and other are between 20,000 and 80,000. Marriage and Couples Visas have high income attachments so are more for wealthy people, bringing family is not automatic so family visas are also restrictive.
So what are people moaning at? That we have a lot of work visas? Then educate more people and promote those industries. Its expensive to sponsor visas, most companies don't. Too many students? Idiotic. Asylum? Small minority. Couples? thats already discriminatory and a small minority. Family, also highly restrictive and a tiny minority.
You just answered your own question.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Even by your standards this is abysmal.
Leave communities to it and hope cops help them…vacate the streets to the control of the far right…. militant anti fascists are motivated by hatred of the police…..confronting people who use violence to empower and build their organisations is bad…
All. Over. The. Shop.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Interesting piece about how social media was used to organise far right activity in Southport and elsewhere.
Violent Southport protests reveal organising tactics of the far-right
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Read my post again
Silas Loom
Advanced. Forthright. Signifficant.
Bollocks. I agree with klang wholeheartedly on this. It’s a stupid word that’s only used by the right, it brigades together all sorts of issues and undertakings and hot topics with inclusive language battles that should already have been won, and there is no reason for anyone on the centre to allow it into meaningful debate.
YouSir
Retired from Urban
The use of 'woke' as a dismissive term originates on the US Far Right, it's in no way 'far-left' to be aware of that. The people who pushed it into common use would absolutely love you asserting that it is though.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I'm actually going to give this a proper response.
We don't have unfettered immigration, which is the current right wing belief. Its false though.
Net migration to the UK - Migration Observatory
An overview of net migration in the UK – defined as the difference between immigration and emigration of people moving for at least a year.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
Only 14% of people in this country were born outside of the UK. This is generally in-line with our neighbours and below many of our allies including Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Belgium, Sweden, and Ireland where as much as 20% of the population can be born outside of their nations.
Asylum Migration is incredibly low, the majority are students (who are largely temporary) and those who are here on work visas. Breaking it down, the article shows Non-EU Migration but its representative.
Highest is work visas at 423,000 - these will require a sponsorship - so have obtained a sponsored employment position with a business or organisation that follows UK employment visa regulations such as filling in-demand industries, generally require a high level degree unless in specific critical demand industries such as healthcare. The critical demand list is flexible and changes regularly, outside of that you need to be highly qualified and have a sponsored job offer which is selective and hard. They also need the means to sustain themselves.
Next are students at 379,000, who for some weird ass reason became a target for immigration criticism. You want us to have a world class education system but they whinge about students. They are here to study, have to have an offer and sponsorship from a UK University, and have to have their annual course fees and living costs in the bank as part of their visa application. Thats between £30,000 and £60,000 per year depending upon the university. There is the work transition option but thats selective and the vast majority leave after study, only 8% stay on a grad visa and 11% on skilled worker routes (i.e. high demand/healthcare). This number fluctuates wildly year on year too.
Your 700k per year, well near 400k are students who are here for between 1-3 years. Its dense as hell.
Everything else, so asylum, marriage/couples/family, and other are between 20,000 and 80,000. Marriage and Couples Visas have high income attachments so are more for wealthy people, bringing family is not automatic so family visas are also restrictive.
So what are people moaning at? That we have a lot of work visas? Then educate more people and promote those industries. Its expensive to sponsor visas, most companies don't. Too many students? Idiotic. Asylum? Small minority. Couples? thats already discriminatory and a small minority. Family, also highly restrictive and a tiny minority.
You just answered your own question.
I'm not going to check your numbers as you've clearly put some work in there, so happy to take it all at face value.
What do you think UK immigration policy should be? Give us some figures.
It is utterly meaningless. Here's a list of things and people I've seen described as 'woke': not being able to debate politely, graphs, vegetarianism, tofu, Gary Lineker, Gareth Southgate, taking an interest in history, men talking about emotions, men taking good care of their health, assertiveness training for women, Around the World In 80 Days, black people on TV in general, England kits. I could go on.
Also, Spymaster is starting to remind me of the right-wing trolls we had on the political forum on the Hole site, who just signed up to play with liberals and didn't actually care about Hole, they just wanted a debate and people to argue with. I'm relatively new here but I get the impression this is what you guys are dealing with? He's here because he wants to find people to argue with and maybe poke the lefties a bit?
Also, Spymaster is starting to remind me of the right-wing trolls we had on the political forum on the Hole site, who just signed up to play with liberals and didn't actually care about Hole, they just wanted a debate and people to argue with. I'm relatively new here but I get the impression this is what you guys are dealing with? He's here because he wants to find people to argue with and maybe poke the lefties a bit?
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Yeah, I'm not sure a lot of the people advocating for it with TR have thought it through tbh. Although, as Elpenor says above, it'd make no odds in his case anyway since his Irish passport would allow him to stay in Britain.
The Mumsnet criteria for wokeness is particularly rich considering that the TERF contingent aren't known for being good at debate, or being reasonable, or being polite, or being willing to listen to the other side.
Sorry for the diversion. I should have known what was going on.
Sorry for the diversion. I should have known what was going on.
YouSir
Retired from Urban
It's not exactly meaningless, making it a wholesale derogatory term makes it easier to use it as an attack line on actual issues.
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