Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
indeed.
although i have occasionally quoted the bit about having tattoos to anyone with tattoos who's using another bit as justification for their homophobia...
Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder
- Thread starter Agrippa57
- Start date
indeed.
although i have occasionally quoted the bit about having tattoos to anyone with tattoos who's using another bit as justification for their homophobia...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I want 'lock em up for years' not to be the knee-jerk reaction whenever there is unrest. But I don't only apply that to people I have sympathy for, such as Palestinian kids throwing stones at their occupiers. For the idea to have any force, it also has to be applied to people you detest.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Absolutely .
Throw bricks and fireworks at the emergency services, go looting and setting things on fire; go to prison.
Doesn't matter if you're right wing scum or left wing scum.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
What if as was the case at eg orgreave, Hyde park, wapping or trafalgar square you are being attacked without provocation by the police? Is it your submission that you should meekly take a beating?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No. As I've said before, there's a case for self defence and the defence of others.
But if you're getting a kicking because you've been attacking others, hard luck.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I remember after 81 even the Tory government realised that this was not something purely to be put down in punitive way.
Out of it came the Scarman report.
And this was a right wing government
And now there are posts here saying any violent disorder should be dealt with purely in a punitive way. This will suppress them in future. The deterrent effect.
Less understanding and more prison time.
Out of it came the Scarman report.
And this was a right wing government
And now there are posts here saying any violent disorder should be dealt with purely in a punitive way. This will suppress them in future. The deterrent effect.
Less understanding and more prison time.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Of course. If you attack and attempt to injure other people, I will laugh and cheer when you get sent to prison.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I am not against deterrent sentencing in itself however it needs to be used along with crime reduction strategies not as a crime reduction strategy by itself. The Assault on Emergency Workers (Offences) Act 2018 ( which included NHS staff) extended custodial sentencing to 12 months . Well meaning as it is, by itself it has had very little impact on the level of assaults. One of the lessons from knife crime from the early 2000s was that the biggest and most effective reductions were carried out using the Violence Reduction Unit strategy based on the Glasgow project rather than just the banner headlines of longer sentences. A more holistic multi-agency approach is far more effective than just a justice-led approach.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
In post 4136 you said:
What did you mean by that?
I assumed you were referring to those arrested for attacking far right supporters?
Is that not a case of self defence in light of racists coming to ones community?
Or did I read that wrong
petee
no gods, no malarkey
in 1999 i was furiously opposed to what i was hearing out of seattle - cars getting torched, businesses getting smashed up. those cars were the cars of FWs who needed them to get to the jobs that fed their families, you know, workers. but when i exchanged with someone at the time, his response was "eh, insurance will cover it." never before had i realized so clearly how stupidly supercilious leftists could be.
so i support what Spymaster is saying.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Can you give me an example of 'left wing scum' doing this in a way that had you laughing and cheering as they were sent to prison?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No. Not in these recent cases at least. I've explained my thoughts on that further back in the thread. Those using force to genuinely defend others have my full support.
Those who attack the emergency services with bricks and fireworks, go looting for TVs, trainers or Greggs pasties, and getting a bit of arson in, I want policed to fuck and imprisoned.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Not playing your silly games.
You give me some examples of lefties getting nicked for anything I've mentioned above and I'll laugh and cheer retrospectively.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
So that bloke who was sent to prison for stealing a bottle of water in 2011. You cheered that? You were pleased that he had been policed to fuck?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
This is your silly game, not mine. You're the one posturing about policing to fuck.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He didn't mean anything. It's just empty posturing.
Those leftist mobs terrorising the streets. Them.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF there is a considerable difference between 1981 / 2011 and this - mainly in terms of how much it was aimed at a particular community / perceived members of that community, and secondly how (if not pre-planned it was then) much the ground had been prepared for it in advance (via the media, social media, commentators, influencers / grifters, various politicians and so on).
I agree that sentences pour encourager les autres are not always the best way of dealing with "normal riots" (especially because the people hit hardest are usually the most remorseful, or are shamed into handing themselves in by friends/family) but this had much more of the flavour of a pogrom, and I think a message has to be sent that reminds everyone how this will never be tolerated. Obviously to do that properly then they (HMG) need to go after those at the top with appropriate measures, not just hammer the idiots who physically did things.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
You often use this reductio ad absurdum tactic but I've never seen it get you anywhere.
No. Stealing a bottle of water doesn't deserve a heavy sentence and I'm referring to violent acts, specifically those that target emergency services personnel, or deliberate attempts to cause serious damage.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That police officers are people.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
But you included looting in your list above. Looting a bottle of water doesn't count?
Just trying to get what you're saying straight. You're frothing a bit, so it's difficult to follow.
I'd forgotten that Starmer was the head of the DPP in 2011. So presumably he oked the imprisonment of people who looted bottles of water.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
But that is not what is being said in recent pages.
What is being said is that there is no excuse for violent disorder period.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No it's not.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
You've lost me here.
OK
A concrete example from up thread post of mine.
A few Asian men have been banged up for attacking some of these far right supporters.
Do you agree with that? Or do you think they were defending community and should have not been arrested?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I don't know without seeing the circumstances of their arrests.
Calamity1971
If Mr Peanut says It's okay, then it is.
There's a video doing the rounds of her filming herself with a hammer.to 'what is love'. She apparently got done for stalking another woman. Her FB page was wall to wall right wing shite planning on going to a riot.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Is this bin woman, or pink shorts woman?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
In that case when is it acceptable to attack the far right when they come into ones community bent on trouble?
What are the correct circumstances?
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