Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[emanymton]

I thought I heard that more serious charges were being planned, and this has popped-up.

Could face, let's see what actually happens.

 

[Spymaster]

It really doesn't, no one claimed they would be slow or that people would not get sent down, just that the sentences would be light compared to things like Just stop oil.

This just isn’t true. There’s been loads of whining about the police and judiciary treating right wing protestors differently to leftie ones.

The comparison to JSO isn’t worth making because their sentences, whilst funny, were aberrant, and unlikely to be seen again for a while.

 

[emanymton]

This just isn’t true. There’s been loads of whining about the police and judiciary treating right wing protestors differently to leftie ones.

The comparison to JSO isn’t worth making because their sentences, whilst funny, were aberrant, and unlikely to been again for a while.

On your first point I agree, I have done my share of "whining". But I don't recall anyone saying it would take a long time or that they would get of without being sent down, just that an equivalent left protest would get much worse.

On the second, yes part of why it is hard to say is that every case is unique so you can't draw direct comparisons.

 

[DotCommunist]

unlikely to been again for a while

No I think theres an authoritarian turn coming, everything about starmer and his project demand it. The logic and history of the british state itself means they'll disproportionally target the left but you can expect to see the 'illegitimate' right take a few hammerings as well. I may be wrong, it has been known, but check back here in 6-12 mnths.

 

[emanymton]

On your first point I agree, I have done my share of "whining". But I don't recall anyone saying it would take a long time or that they would get of without being sent down, just that an equivalent left protest would get much worse.

On the second, yes part of why it is hard to day is that every case is unique so you can't draw direct comparisons.

Bloody phone posted this before I finished.

To carry on from where I was.
The ones to watch I think are the people who set fire to hotels with people in them, if no one is charged in relation to that, or they just get a couple of years I think that would really look like they are going softer on them.

 

[cupid_stunt]

yeh people could face the max sentence for riot if they're charged with riot no shit, sherlock

and this bit about violent rioters - what have the people charged thus far been described as, peaceful?

You could read past the first sentence you know.

Of course, the head of the CPS said 'could face up to 10 years in prison if they are charged with rioting', because that's the maximum, it's up to the courts to decide if they are going for the maximum.

The important bit, is he has confirmed a “new phase” of cases which will include “more serious charges with stiffer penalties”.

BTW, at least one has already been charged with riot in NI.

The only High Court cases we are seeing ATM are those pleading guilty to the lesser charge of violent disorder, so they are easy to deal with. Others have been reprimanded for longer periods, which would make sense if they are collecting extra evidence for more serious charges, which are more likely to be contested, and require trial by jury.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The ones to watch I think are the people who set fire to hotels with people in them, if no one is charged in relation to that, or they just get a couple of years I think that would really look like they are going softer on them.

Indeed, I suspect it's these ones the head of the CPS is talking about.

 

[Pickman's model]

You could read past the first sentence you know.

Of course, the head of the CPS said 'could face up to 10 years in prison if they are charged with rioting', because that's the maximum, it's up to the courts to decide if they are going for the maximum.

The important bit, is he has confirmed a “new phase” of cases which will include “more serious charges with stiffer penalties”.

BTW, at least one has already been charged with riot in NI.

The only High Court cases we are seeing ATM are those pleading guilty to the lesser charge of violent disorder, so they are easy to deal with. Others have been reprimanded for longer periods, which would make sense if they are collecting extra evidence for more serious charges, which are more likely to be contested, and require trial by jury.

I love it when people tell me what I have already said and none of your reply is relevant to my post

E2A it is up to the courts to determine the sentence altho of course the cps can ask for any sentence they want. And no one has been reprimanded for any length of time.

 

[emanymton]

Indeed, I suspect it's these ones the head of the CPS is talking about.

I have a feeling no one will be charged specifically regarding the fires, just more general disorder charges. Let's see what happens.

 

[Spymaster]

No I think theres an authoritarian turn coming, everything about starmer and his project demand it. The logic and history of the british state itself means they'll disproportionally target the left but you can expect to see the 'illegitimate' right take a few hammerings as well. I may be wrong, it has been known, but check back here in 6-12 mnths.

I don't think you're right. Any disproportionality in numbers arrested will be down the greater number of left wing actions. But yes, let's have another look in a year.

Also probably worth pointing out that the JSO tools were arrested and charged under the previous government. Starmer had only been in office a few days when they were sentenced.

 

[tim]

yeh people could face the max sentence for riot if they're charged with riot no shit, sherlock

and this bit about violent rioters - what have the people charged thus far been described as, peaceful?

But in reality they are unlikely to be charged with riot because under the provisions of the Riot Compensation the state is obliged to compensate those who have suffered loss as the result of a riot.

Riot compensation: quick guide for claimants (accessible)

www.gov.uk

 

[two sheds]

Anyone found guilty of arson of buildings with people inside could get life though.

 

[Pickman's model]

But in reality they are unlikely to be charged with riot because under the provisions of the Riot Compensation the state is obliged to compensate those who have suffered loss as the result of a riot.

Riot compensation: quick guide for claimants (accessible)

www.gov.uk

As I've pointed out some days ago with that very link

 

[emanymton]

Anyone found guilty of arson of buildings with people inside could get life though.

Don't see it happening.
Ultimately at this point we just need to wait and see now. And at some point in the future one side of this argument gets to tell the other "told you so".

 

[danny la rouge]

And at some point in the future one side of this argument gets to tell the other "told you so".

I’ve done that. To be perfectly honest it makes me feel worse. Best to keep it to yourself.

 

[emanymton]

I’ve done that. To be perfectly honest it makes me feel worse. Best to keep it to yourself.

Can't see Spy taking that advice.

 

[Gramsci]

Yeah, I think one of the important things that people can be doing over the coming weeks and months is keeping an eye on these cases and making sure that anyone facing charges for defending their communities is getting support, would be good to get a proper listing of them. Have seen AFN and the NE anarcho group making encouraging noises about their intention to do so, along with Copwatch Network. Also saw this interesting statement about Croydon (disclaimer: I am not from Croydon and really not familiar with the local context).

Thanks for this.

Imo the big turnout by local communities in different areas was an underrated factor in stopping further racist action.

It wasn't encouraged by the state. Surprisingly big turnouts in parts of England.

Also I notice places that had been attacked and damaged spontaneously people came to offer support.

Good example of mutual aid in practice.

This rather than the bang them up and throw away the key is how to stop racist violence.

 

[Spymaster]

This rather than the bang them up and throw away the key is how to stop racist violence.

Cobblers. Clearing up after riots is not going to stop them, and whilst the counter protests have been a key factor in challenging the scum this time, they're far from the only one, or arguably, even the most significant one.

You're never going to get rid of racism or racists. If immigration was halted tomorrow, they wouldn't go away. They'd just move on to another target.

The way to reduce violence is to make it too perilous to engage in. People are entitled to their political views, however odious, but when those views go beyond thoughts and words, and become violent actions, intimidation and attempts to hurt others, whether you're left or right, you should be policed to fuck and go to prison.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Kenan Malik is a thick cunt who spouts the same reactionary shit he did when defending racists on behalf of the RCP.

That is one view

 

[Wookey]

The way to reduce violence is to make it too perilous to engage in. People are entitled to their political views, however odious, but when those views go beyond thoughts and words, and become violent actions, intimidation and attempts to hurt others, whether you're left or right, you should be policed to fuck and go to prison.

Where does stopping the M25, or throwing soup over a painting, appear on this spectrum of actions that intimidate?

 

[Wookey]

This rather than the bang them up and throw away the key is how to stop racist violence.

Nobody is throwing away any keys. Just to be clear. These people will see freedom, we're not throwing them down an oubliette.

 

[two sheds]

Where does stopping the M25, or throwing soup over a painting, appear on this spectrum of actions that intimidate?

good people on both sides

 

[emanymton]

Nobody is throwing away any keys. Just to be clear. These people will see freedom, we're not throwing them down an oubliette.

If only.

 

[Saul Goodman]

The way to reduce violence is to make it too perilous to engage in. People are entitled to their political views, however odious, but when those views go beyond thoughts and words, and become violent actions, intimidation and attempts to hurt others, whether you're left or right, you should be policed to fuck and go to prison.

This doesn't seem to work in America.
I reckon being forced to spend a year with Ricky Gervais would work... James Corden for a second offence. But that'd probably fall under the 'cruel and unusual punishment' rule.

 

[Spymaster]

Where does stopping the M25, or throwing soup over a painting, appear on this spectrum of actions that intimidate?

2 yrs, and 6 months suspended for 5 years (plus restoration costs), respectively.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

also on lewisham council's coat of arms

What's with the two monkeys poking their tongues out?

 

[Pickman's model]

What's with the two monkeys poking their tongues out?

Time for a trip to specsavers if that's what you see where the heraldic lions are

 

[two sheds]

Ah I was thinking horse-like things which made even less sense

 

[Wilf]

By the by, I've just posted a thread on the future of opposition to the far right, next steps etc. I've started it off with some of my concerns about organisations like Stand Up to Racism, but the thread can of course go where it will. It just seemed like there was a slightly different discussion to be had to the one in this thread.

After the Far Right/Fash Riots?

Say the least, this isn’t going to be a worked out account of the ways ant-racism is going to go, just something purely observational from the weekend: On Saturday I saw a Stand Up to Racism guy being interviewed in central London at the Reform HQ and thought, I know how this is going to go...

www.urban75.net