Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[scifisam]

And to quote myself.

Reading this Guardian article again was struck that the plod after these rushed court appearances took it upon themselves to post up on their FB the picture of the woman convicted.

This women was imo in the vulnerable category. Her crime had been helping to push a wheelie bin at cops and being so stoned that she fell over. The crime of the century.

She has sad history of domestic abuse etc.

Kind of feel that the cops took this opportunity to further humiliate her on social media knowing full well she would be pilloried.

This is the same establishment going on about how given these riots social media is at fault and should be clamped down on.

It all seems one sided to me.

Agreed. Unless there was something else going on earlier that she took an active part in, that bin incident made it seem like she was being goaded into it and barely capable of knowing what she was doing, which was helping to push a bin - and it was "helping;" she was basically clinging onto it and couldn't have done it on her own. The courts don't take drunkenness into consideration, but maybe sometimes they should.

That doesn't mean she should get off with nothing, because she did still choose to join in the riot rather than stay home (and it was always going to be a riot, not a "protest"), but the sentence is harsh. She doesn't seem like someone who needs to be kept off the streets in case she does it again - but, I admit, that's without knowing the full story submitted to the court. Maybe she had a history of ASBOs or was known for low-level attacks on others at the hostel.

Many of the 2011 rioting sentences were also harsh, so I guess they can be used, in law anyway, to justify this one.

 

[bris]

This is a good one.

She has/had a child minding business.

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/crime/northampton-childminder-and-conservative-councillors-wife-speaks-out-after-going-viral-with-hateful-tweet-seen-by-15-million-4732955

She looks like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

 

[bris]

I miss Greggs

The right wing thugs here in Sunderland didn't. One of the Greggs doors were smashed and it was closed for a while.

 

[Dogsauce]

Yeah, that's not up there with trying to burn down a hotel. Not that she should have gotten involved in the riots, but the sentence for her is way harsh.

She had I think six previous convictions including for violence, posted shit on social media before attending and has also been an organiser for anti-Muslim fash stuff in the past. Plus racially abused a copper after arrest and made a preposterous claim in her defence in court that ‘black’ referred to his uniform not his skin colour. So not just sentenced for shoving a bin (there were several bins, and I think she was also gathering bricks & rubble for others to throw).

 

[Dogsauce]

She looks like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth.

Slap on the wrist and a small fine I reckon. Class privilege. See how this compares to that lad from Seacroft who did basically exactly the same.

 

[Gramsci]

Watch woman jailed for violent disorder fall flat on face pushing wheelie bin at cops

Stacey Vint, 34, has been jailed for one year and eight months after trying to push a burning wheelie bin at police during Middlesbrough 'riots'.

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk

Says here she had one previous conviction for theft and a caution for battery. Cannot see anything else so far.

 

[Gramsci]

Looking that up and saw this.

Cops have been banging up those who took on the racists. Which If I had any say in it wouldn't happen

Joining Parlour at Leeds Crown Court were Sameer Ali, 21, and Adnan Ghafoor, 31, who were jailed for 20 months and 18 months respectively for an attack on “pro-EDL” protesters after rival demonstrations in the city.

The court was shown CCTV footage of a group of Asian men kicking and punching a smaller group of four white men, one of whom was draped in a Union flag and wearing a Union flag mask, on Saturday

Facebook user first to be jailed for stirring up racial hatred during riots

Jordan Parlour admitted urging others to attack a hotel housing over 200 asylum seekers and refugees.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Lurdan]

She had I think six previous convictions including for violence, posted shit on social media before attending and has also been an organiser for anti-Muslim fash stuff in the past. Plus racially abused a copper after arrest and made a preposterous claim in her defence in court that ‘black’ referred to his uniform not his skin colour. So not just sentenced for shoving a bin (there were several bins, and I think she was also gathering bricks & rubble for others to throw).

That was Leanne Hodgson from Sunderland not Stacey Vint from Middlesbrough who was being referred to.

 

[Pickman's model]

Slap on the wrist and a small fine I reckon. Class privilege. See how this compares to that lad from Seacroft who did basically exactly the same.

You may well be right but equally her position 'in the community' might lead to a harsher sentence especially if this is part of a pattern or something emerges about views expressed in the course of her work

 

[Dogsauce]

Looking that up and saw this.

Cops have been banging up those who took on the racists. Which If I had any say in it wouldn't happen

Facebook user first to be jailed for stirring up racial hatred during riots

Jordan Parlour admitted urging others to attack a hotel housing over 200 asylum seekers and refugees.

www.shropshirestar.com

Yeah, those convictions seem harsh, especially with the provocation. Normal Friday night shit like this probably wouldn’t even attract a custodial. Definitely an ‘example’ being set. Though again the previous (although a driving conviction) did add to the sentencing length. But those lads hadn’t gone out to cause trouble, there’s no equivalence to what the far right was up to. I reckon they should appeal that.

 

[Dogsauce]

That was Leanne Hodgson from Sunderland not Stacy Vint from Middlesbrough who was being referred to.

Fair enough, was getting my bin-shovers confused!

 

[tim]

.

Looking that up and saw this.

Cops have been banging up those who took on the racists. Which If I had any say in it wouldn't happen

Facebook user first to be jailed for stirring up racial hatred during riots

Jordan Parlour admitted urging others to attack a hotel housing over 200 asylum seekers and refugees.

www.shropshirestar.com

An approach that would go down well with the "two-tier policing" brigade on Twitter. Keir is tough on anyone who threatens his tough look.

 

[tim]

Fair enough, was getting my bin-shovers confused!

Do they all look the same to you?

 

[Spymaster]

Agreed. Unless there was something else going on earlier that she took an active part in, that bin incident made it seem like she was being goaded into it and barely capable of knowing what she was doing, which was helping to push a bin - and it was "helping;" she was basically clinging onto it and couldn't have done it on her own. The courts don't take drunkenness into consideration, but maybe sometimes they should.

That doesn't mean she should get off with nothing, because she did still choose to join in the riot rather than stay home (and it was always going to be a riot, not a "protest"), but the sentence is harsh. She doesn't seem like someone who needs to be kept off the streets in case she does it again - but, I admit, that's without knowing the full story submitted to the court. Maybe she had a history of ASBOs or was known for low-level attacks on others at the hostel.

Many of the 2011 rioting sentences were also harsh, so I guess they can be used, in law anyway, to justify this one.

It needs to be remembered that none of these people have been sentenced purely for the individual incidents that got them arrested. There is the massively aggravating factor that they were taking part in, or encouraging organised racial hatred. In the cases of those who incited or took part in the burning of hotels it's not far short of incitement to/attempted murder, but no one would've pleaded guilty to that and long drawn-out court cases would've ensued with possible acquittals.

The swift and harsh sentencing was designed to stop the riots and it worked almost instantly. As soon as people started going to prison it was pretty much over, which is one in the eye for anyone who claims that harsher sentencing isn't a deterrent.

One thousand arrests and 400 court appearances in ten days also makes a mockery out of the silly claims we had from some on here in the early days that "the fash" would be treated more leniently than leftie protestors.

The government and police did well.

 

[Spymaster]

You may well be right but equally her position 'in the community' might lead to a harsher sentence especially if this is part of a pattern or something emerges about views expressed in the course of her work

The 'slit their throats' Labour fella needs to do time too.

 

[Pickman's model]

The 'slit their throats' Labour fella needs to do time too.

let's not pre-judge the matter while proceedings are er proceeding

 

[Spymaster]

let's not pre-judge the matter while proceedings are er proceeding

It's pretty clear what the fuckwit did because he did on on camera, but yes. Point taken.

 

[ska invita]

As soon as people started going to prison it was pretty much over, which is one in the eye for anyone who claims that harsher sentencing isn't a deterrent.

I think thats a misreading....if you are planning a crime, lets say a burglary where you know there are really valuable items inside, and the sentence you might get if caught could be a maximum 3, 5, 10 or 15 years, the length of the sentence isnt necessarily a factor as to whether you do it or not, if you think you can get away with it.

Knowing that all eyes are on any far-right action, that it'll be on the news, on social media, and that police are waiting down side roads ready to arrest and charge, that is a deterrent, just as if the house you planned to burgle was being monitored on the news, with cops parked outside, and hundreds of people standing around it with camera phones.

 

[Spymaster]

Knowing that all eyes are on any far-right action, that it'll be on the news, on social media, and that police are waiting down side roads ready to arrest and charge, that is a deterrent …

Not if you think the probably consequences will be a slap on the wrist.

Once these fuckers realised they’d be going to prison, they stayed at home.

 

[ska invita]

Once these fuckers realised they’d be going to prison, they stayed at home.

yes but my point is its not because of what a sentence guidelines is written down on a bit of paper somewhere, but because each event would have total surveillance and policing, If we lived in a total surveillance police state where you couldn't get away with any crime that would bring crime rates down too - not increased sentence guidelines.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's pretty clear what the fuckwit did because he did on on camera, but yes. Point taken.

what the evidence appears to show and whether the prosecution can prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt may be two different things - and we all abide by the auld adage that people are considered innocent until proven guilty, no matter how much we gnash our teeth at this intolerable rule

 

[Spymaster]

yes but my point is its not because of what a sentence guidelines is written down on a bit of paper somewhere, but because each event would have to total surveillance and policing. If we lived in a total surveillance police state where you couldn't get away with any crime that would bring crime rates down too - not increased sentence guidelines.

The two go hand in hand.

The deterrent of getting caught is sterile without the expectation of serious consequences.

 

[hitmouse]

Looking that up and saw this.

Cops have been banging up those who took on the racists. Which If I had any say in it wouldn't happen

Facebook user first to be jailed for stirring up racial hatred during riots

Jordan Parlour admitted urging others to attack a hotel housing over 200 asylum seekers and refugees.

www.shropshirestar.com

Yeah, I think one of the important things that people can be doing over the coming weeks and months is keeping an eye on these cases and making sure that anyone facing charges for defending their communities is getting support, would be good to get a proper listing of them. Have seen AFN and the NE anarcho group making encouraging noises about their intention to do so, along with Copwatch Network. Also saw this interesting statement about Croydon (disclaimer: I am not from Croydon and really not familiar with the local context).

 

[cupid_stunt]

Slap on the wrist and a small fine I reckon. Class privilege. See how this compares to that lad from Seacroft who did basically exactly the same.

Not sure about, the Magistrates' Court remanded her in custody until she appears at the Crown Court today, that gives an indication that the Magistrates Court didn't feel they had the power to sentence her harshly enough.*

She is 'alleged' to have tweeted - “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care… If that makes me racist, so be it.”

ETA -

* Confirmed in this quote - "District Judge Rahim Allen-Khimani told Connolly the matter was "too serious for this court to deal with". BBC LINK

 

[The39thStep]

I think thats a misreading....if you are planning a crime, lets say a burglary where you know there are really valuable items inside, and the sentence you might get if caught could be a maximum 3, 5, 10 or 15 years, the length of the sentence isnt necessarily a factor as to whether you do it or not, if you think you can get away with it.

Knowing that all eyes are on any far-right action, that it'll be on the news, on social media, and that police are waiting down side roads ready to arrest and charge, that is a deterrent, just as if the house you planned to burgle was being monitored on the news, with cops parked outside, and hundreds of people standing around it with camera phones.

Most research will say that detection is the biggest issue, followed by an appropriate sanction. That is of course unless we deviate from the detection/arrest/justice process and resort to some posters default mode of shoot to kill.

Most crime isn't committed by some rational thought process meticulously weighing up the likelihood of being caught and likely sentence referring to judges sentencing guidelines. It tends to be impulsive and spontaneous. Repeat offenders are proof of this, even to the extent of those who serve multiple lengthy sentences and then when released end up going back inside. Even in the heyday of corporal punishment, there were many cases of young people being birched on several occasions.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

It needs to be remembered that none of these people have been sentenced purely for the individual incidents that got them arrested. There is the massively aggravating factor that they were taking part in, or encouraging organised racial hatred. In the cases of those who incited or took part in the burning of hotels it's not far short of incitement to/attempted murder, but no one would've pleaded guilty to that and long drawn-out court cases would've ensued with possible acquittals.

The swift and harsh sentencing was designed to stop the riots and it worked almost instantly. As soon as people started going to prison it was pretty much over, which is one in the eye for anyone who claims that harsher sentencing isn't a deterrent.

One thousand arrests and 400 court appearances in ten days also makes a mockery out of the silly claims we had from some on here in the early days that "the fash" would be treated more leniently than leftie protestors.

The government and police did well.

I can't help having mixed feelings about the whole grizzly mess. Yes, the vile far right knuckle draggers are getting what they deserved, with the harsh prison sentences and fast-tracked justice, but it's a bit sick-making to see the police and the state being so smug and authoritarian.

 

[Pickman's model]

It needs to be remembered that none of these people have been sentenced purely for the individual incidents that got them arrested. There is the massively aggravating factor that they were taking part in, or encouraging organised racial hatred. In the cases of those who incited or took part in the burning of hotels it's not far short of incitement to/attempted murder, but no one would've pleaded guilty to that and long drawn-out court cases would've ensued with possible acquittals.

The swift and harsh sentencing was designed to stop the riots and it worked almost instantly. As soon as people started going to prison it was pretty much over, which is one in the eye for anyone who claims that harsher sentencing isn't a deterrent.

One thousand arrests and 400 court appearances in ten days also makes a mockery out of the silly claims we had from some on here in the early days that "the fash" would be treated more leniently than leftie protestors.

The government and police did well.

they have been treated more leniently than black / brown people as we have established up the thread.

 

[Spymaster]

I can't help having mixed feelings about the whole grizzly mess. Yes, the vile far right knuckle draggers are getting what they deserved, with the harsh prison sentences and fast-tracked justice, but it's a bit sick-making to see the police and the state being so smug and authoritarian.

I'm all for it.

My only worry is that the sentences get reduced on appeal.

 

[Pickman's model]

I can't help having mixed feelings about the whole grizzly mess. Yes, the vile far right knuckle draggers are getting what they deserved, with the harsh prison sentences and fast-tracked justice, but it's a bit sick-making to see the police and the state being so smug and authoritarian.

why do vfrkds deserve fast tracked justice but people accused of crimes outside public disorder don't? why do these people deserve a speedy trial but the people protesting against the public order bill in bristol didn't?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I'm all for it.

My only worry is that the sentences get reduced on appeal.

Unlikely to happen, surely? It's more likely that they'll be released early because of the lack of prison spaces.