Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[Agrippa57]

I hadn't heard that, that's good news.

There are still good people out there. Many of them. That's a good thing to read on a grey, rainy morning.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Not all men are fighters, not all want to fit into a tribe, want to assert dominance, are pumped after booze, or see violence as the best way of resolving things.

I agree. The way I wrote that last post could suggest all or most men like that (which wasn't my intention). It's obviously a subset of men, and I agree the explanations are complex and could overlap with violence against women. It seems to happen across cultures in different guises.

 

[Rob Ray]

They're not really going as before are they, and if they got proscribed they'd just hide their branded hoodies and merch and print some new shite under a different name

Yep, proscribing as a habit is both no kind of solution (none of these people just disappear in a puff of smoke) and an extension of State power that won't just be levied at the right.

 

[Spymaster]

That's a good thing to read on a grey, rainy morning.

As is the fact that we now have an Agrippa to go with agricola.

We need an Africanus.

 

[Spymaster]

Yep, proscribing as a habit is both no kind of solution (none of these people just disappear in a puff of smoke) and an extension of State power that won't just be levied at the right.

The intent of proscription is not to make the people disappear, but to impede their operations by making it illegal to join or support them.

 

[Pickman's model]

As is the fact that we now have an Agrippa to go with agricola.

We need an Africanus.

I wondered whether our agrippa was named after cornelius agrippa the author of books on magic rather than the roman figure of antiquity

 

[Spymaster]

I wondered whether our agrippa was named after cornelius agrippa the author of books on magic rather than the roman figure of antiquity

I very much hope not.

 

[hitmouse]

These are far-right extremists, though. They may claim to represent a wider constituency of the disaffected, but do they really? They don't represent the vast majority of people in Southport. I agree that we shouldn't be complacent about them, but they are nothing new. This isn't a new phenomenon but rather the latest expression of a phenomenon that has been around for as long as any of us have been alive. They should always be opposed, and many of us will have confronted these fuckers over the years, but equally, they should not be taken to represent anything other than themselves.

I'm not saying that they're nice people or that I like them, but I don't understand the reluctance to admit that something important might be happening here. Sometimes circumstances change amd forms of collective action become possible that weren't before. Sometimes that's something we'd approve of, like the strength of Black Lives Matter in summer 2020 or the Palestine solidarity movement over the past year or so. Sometimes that's something we might feel more ambivalent about, like August 2011. And sometimes that's stuff we really wouldn't like.
The prospect of something that spreads on anything like the scale of summer 2011 or 2020, but with the far-right setting the agenda, is frankly terrifying. And I'm not saying that we're there yet, one swallow does not make a summer and all that, but for the far-right to be able to pull off Southport-London-Miles Platting-Hartlepool in such a short space of time is something concerning, and something that I don't think they'd have been able to do a week ago.

 

[tim]

SIR Michael Take's take on the need to protest against wokery.

 

[cesare]

Can you imagine if it'd been pissing down with rain? All those umbrellas, not

 

[Rimbaud]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but fuck social media has become awful. I remember back in the 00s the Internet was a refreshing haven from the reactionary hysterical shit obsessed with asylum seekers, PC gone mad, and EU banana regulations in the mainstream press (The Sun, The Daily Mail etc) but now social media seems flooded with even worse versions of that stuff almost wherever you look which can spread unverified falsehoods leading to these far right riots with little legal consequence or accountability.

I think it does say something about the role that big money has I'm propagating this stuff because all that has changed is big money has found ways to manipulate social media and it is flooded with bots and propagandists now.

 

[Spymaster]

... unverified falsehoods leading to these far right riots with little legal consequence or accountability.

Exactly what they are.

Getting pissed-off with the media calling them "Southport protests".

 

[ouirdeaux]

In the early part of the century relatively few people spent much time on the internet. Now everyone does. That's the main difference.

 

[Rimbaud]

In the early part of the century relatively few people spent much time on the internet. Now everyone does. That's the main difference.

True, but the bots and propagandists are a consequence of that- before newspapers and TV news were the main targets of public opinion manipulation, now it is social media.

 

[Pickman's model]

On a slightly more positive note, Mrs SFM was speaking to her folks last night (who live a couple of streets away from the rioting) and her old man said that significant numbers of people from Liverpool and Manchester turned up in the aftermath to help with clearing up the mess in a show of solidarity - possibly to prove that “outsiders” can descend for a positive reason.

It's quite a thing as anyone who recalls the 2011 riots will aver.

 

[existentialist]

How is this gonna stop government from dividing communities, othering people and steering hatred? Stop SM from giving platforms, firing algorithms back at people and playing their part in organising?

I do absolutely think that the last Government showed the way for these thugs. Some of the language coming from government, including from the likes of Braverman and Patel, and the normalisation of what I would previously thought of as outrageous. Of course, that's not the only contributing factor, but it is inescapable that the Overton Window has shifted somewhat to the right, and equally inescapable that the Conservatives have had a pivotal role in that, in deliberately embracing discriminatory narratives to appeal to the swivel-eyed loon tendency in the party.

 

[klang]

I do absolutely think that the last Government showed the way for these thugs. Some of the language coming from government, including from the likes of Braverman and Patel, and the normalisation of what I would previously thought of as outrageous. Of course, that's not the only contributing factor, but it is inescapable that the Overton Window has shifted somewhat to the right, and equally inescapable that the Conservatives have had a pivotal role in that, in deliberately embracing discriminatory narratives to appeal to the swivel-eyed loon tendency in the party.

And the last 3 or 4 governments before that, at least.

 

[existentialist]

And the last 3 or 4 governments before that, at least.

Yes, true. But my perception is that the process has significantly escalated in the runup to and aftermath of the Brexit vote.

 

[Pickman's model]

I do absolutely think that the last Government showed the way for these thugs. Some of the language coming from government, including from the likes of Braverman and Patel, and the normalisation of what I would previously thought of as outrageous. Of course, that's not the only contributing factor, but it is inescapable that the Overton Window has shifted somewhat to the right, and equally inescapable that the Conservatives have had a pivotal role in that, in deliberately embracing discriminatory narratives to appeal to the swivel-eyed loon tendency in the party.

tbh no blair >>> no edl. i'm sure many of us remember the blairite hostile environment for muslims and the way that the labour administration created the atmosphere in which the bnp's electoral strategy born under tyndall bore such fruit under griffin.

 

[klang]

Yes, true. But my perception is that the process has significantly escalated in the runup to and aftermath of the Brexit vote.

Maybe.
I saw 9-11 and blair / iraq as a big turning point.

 

[klang]

tbh no blair >>> no edl. i'm sure many of us remember the blairite hostile environment for muslims and the way that the labour administration created the atmosphere in which the bnp's electoral strategy born under tyndall bore such fruit under griffin.

Maybe.
I saw 9-11 and blair / iraq as a big turning point.

Cross posted in unison

 

[Smokeandsteam]

The prospect of something that spreads on anything like the scale of summer 2011 or 2020, but with the far-right setting the agenda, is frankly terrifying. And I'm not saying that we're there yet, one swallow does not make a summer and all that, but for the far-right to be able to pull off Southport-London-Miles Platting-Hartlepool in such a short space of time is something concerning, and something that I don't think they'd have been able to do a week ago.

Spot on. There were also protests in Aldershot last night and I am reading about further planned actions in Middlesborough and Liverpool.

Like you, I don't think that we are there yet, but the intent on their side to pull something off on that scale certainly is. The weekend - sunny, warm - will be important.

I have to add, contrary to what some posters here think, that people are fucking angry. It's not just the child killing in Southport, it's a mass of stored up stuff, the aim of the far right here is to direct, keep it bubbling and to benefit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I have to add, contrary to what some posters here think, that people are fucking angry. It's not just the child killing in Southport, it's a mass of stored up stuff, the aim of the far right here is to direct, keep it bubbling and to benefit.

Sorry, 'it's not just the killing in Southport'? It's not helpful to talk about this horrifying, senseless murder as if it were legitimate to give it some wider political significance. It's really not, and we should be crystal clear on that point.

 

[Rob Ray]

Tbf summer thugtaculars were going on under the Tories as well, with the warp and weft being a summer of marches and set-tos followed by declining returns for the next while, bootboys getting despondent, then another blow up revitalising them. They've been quieter in recent years at least in part because their leadership had split into multiple warring factions each led by its own egomaniac.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Interesting how some folk probably proudly identify as far right, while others try to pretend they're not. GBeebies snap poll: Do Britons have a right to feel angry about what is happening to our country without being branded far-right? That question seems to imply there's some truth in linking the recent stabbings to immigration/Islam/whatever.

Disclaimer: I've only read the headline, not clicked through to the article.

 

[The39thStep]

The BNP did seem to have their shit together in MP for a while, but again most locals rejected them despite a significant vote. I seem to remember their main man was a fairly popular local pub landlord or manager.

I grew up in MP, but only go back to Manchester now for family visits, where we drive straight to their houses and back again, and the odd City game. The ground is close to both MP and NH, but despite local post-match boozing it's hard to get a proper feel of the area. So I realise that a lot has probably changed. On my last bus journey taking in MP and NH, at least 6-7 years ago, I was struck by how the non-white population had grown, especially in MP.

Derek Adams , he'd been around for years and had a pub called The Ace of Diamonds where the BNP had their victory do after getting a European MEP seat

 

[klang]

Interesting how some folk probably proudly identify as far right, while others try to pretend they're not.

More worrying is that a huge chunk of non-far right society is branded as far-left by people who may or may not id as right-wingers and how this is repeated and supported by media and politicians.

 

[Rimbaud]

Group chat I'm in saying that there far right rallies planned for Sunderland and Middlesbrough over the weekend - can't make it to the counter rally due to childcare duties but looks like a good time to get active in anti-fascist street politics.

 

[klang]

More worrying is that a huge chunk of non-far right society is branded as far-left by people who may or may not id as right-wingers and how this is repeated and supported by media and politicians.

Eg far right means rioting outside mosques.
Far left means expressing a vaguely 'woke' view

 

[Skinny Ethel]

This is not needed and very worrying. My heads all over the place.