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Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

You’ll probably find a litany of social problems in the background of the rioters. It’s no excuse but noticing how much care I put into raising my own kids the question does arise how the fuck were you raised? Abuse, drug addiction, neglect, poverty, it will all be their I would think in many of their backgrounds. The same fall out from neoliberal capitalism that affects most western countries, just the cycles of dispair that are either lived or out of view (or suddenly come into view like the riot). It’s no excuse in the slightest though, plenty of folk have deprived and tough backgrounds but don’t end up trying to burn down mosques and smash up peoples homes.
 
Newton Heath, an area neighbouring the one I grew up in, has, like all inner-city Manchester and the areas just beyond, traditionally been solid Labour. The BNP, iirc, did get a significant vote there in the early-mid 2000s, for the usual reasons, but they had a weak base, seemingly dependent on the BNP in Oldham to some extent, and were in no way representative of it. They had to bus people in to canvass.

If NH can be whipped up for all this, so can any other similar area in any city.
That tracks. I came to Manchester in 2003 and used to do leafleting with UAF and I remember one of the areas we targeted was NH. Miles Platting as well.
 
You’ll probably find a litany of social problems in the background of the rioters.
Maybe. And in many cases maybe not. There will be a fair few who have steady jobs and families, bit like football hooligans. The fact that the vast majority were not from Southport is revealing. These are not local people expressing their existential rage and alienation. They are organised and have the energy and wherewithal to travel to a destination in order to riot.

I think we shouldn't overstate the way in which this relatively small number of utter wankers is a reflection of wider soceital malaise. What is the total number of rioters right across the country? Are they even counted in thousands rather than hundreds? Just about, possibly.
 
That tracks. I came to Manchester in 2003 and used to do leafleting with UAF and I remember one of the areas we targeted was NH. Miles Platting as well.
The BNP did seem to have their shit together in MP for a while, but again most locals rejected them despite a significant vote. I seem to remember their main man was a fairly popular local pub landlord or manager.

I grew up in MP, but only go back to Manchester now for family visits, where we drive straight to their houses and back again, and the odd City game. The ground is close to both MP and NH, but despite local post-match boozing it's hard to get a proper feel of the area. So I realise that a lot has probably changed. On my last bus journey taking in MP and NH, at least 6-7 years ago, I was struck by how the non-white population had grown, especially in MP.
 
100+ nicked in London

Police clashed with protesters on Whitehall, close to Downing Street, during a demonstration in the wake of the fatal stabbings of three girls at Taylor Swift-themed dance class in Southport, Merseyside, on Monday.
In a statement the Met said officers were deployed to "ensure disorder was contained" but added that some "suffered minor injuries".
Demonstrators were seen launching flares towards the gates of Downing Street and at a statue of Winston Churchill.
People could be heard chanting phrases such as "stop the boats" and "save our kids" as they threw bottles and cans at officers.
Earlier, the Met said conditions placed on the protest had been breached.
It follows unrest on the streets of Southport on Tuesday night.
Merseyside Police said demonstrators in Southport had been fired up by social media posts.
 
Maybe. And in many cases maybe not. There will be a fair few who have steady jobs and families, bit like football hooligans. The fact that the vast majority were not from Southport is revealing. These are not local people expressing their existential rage and alienation. They are organised and have the energy and wherewithal to travel to a destination in order to riot.
I don't think you want to be too complacent on this point. Perhaps Southport last night was based on outsiders stirring things up, and Central London tonight as well, but I don't think there were organised groups of outsiders going into central London and Newton Heath and Hartlepool at the same time.
 
100+ nicked in London
A fucking great start for the reign of new New Labour. Centrism clearly has the answer...

Although, to be fair, this would also be happening under a new Corbyn-style government.

This kind of stuff, as the other posters have said, has to be tackled on the ground, and it's an hard ask. Those of us who can faintly perceive the, not always perfect, answers are ageing cunts. Is there even any longer a social base for the kind of class politics needed? Can social media frenzy be countered, or is the future one of managerial politics aloof from what happens in society and reliant on the relatively comfortably elements, with the rest fighting each other over relative trivia? What happens when climate change really kicks in, and the wave of refugees from the worst affected areas becomes unmanageable, alongside all the other projected infernos?

Contemporary reality seems almost surreal. It's as if everybody but those who live in social media are in a state of collective denial, and that those who step out of their social media bubble can only do stuff that adds to the negative.
 
I don't think you want to be too complacent on this point. Perhaps Southport last night was based on outsiders stirring things up, and Central London tonight as well, but I don't think there were organised groups of outsiders going into central London and Newton Heath and Hartlepool at the same time.
These are far-right extremists, though. They may claim to represent a wider constituency of the disaffected, but do they really? They don't represent the vast majority of people in Southport. I agree that we shouldn't be complacent about them, but they are nothing new. This isn't a new phenomenon but rather the latest expression of a phenomenon that has been around for as long as any of us have been alive. They should always be opposed, and many of us will have confronted these fuckers over the years, but equally, they should not be taken to represent anything other than themselves.
 
These are far-right extremists, though. They may claim to represent a wider constituency of the disaffected, but do they really? They don't represent the vast majority of people in Southport. I agree that we shouldn't be complacent about them, but they are nothing new. This isn't a new phenomenon but rather the latest expression of a phenomenon that has been around for as long as any of us have been alive. They should always be opposed, and many of us will have confronted these fuckers over the years, but equally, they should not be taken to represent anything other than themselves.
They might have been around as long as we can remember, but never have people voted in such numbers for what they stand for, in however a roundabout way.
 
This has to turn a lot of people off them though, surely. And gives a good first line to ask their sympathizers: "So you agree with the far-right riots after the tragedy in Southport?"
As others have said, most reasonable people wouldn't say yes, but those who would give them a base to build on.
 
What's striking about the new right populism/fascism is the number of apparently middle class people who, it seems, are either involved or sympathising (if the right-wing social media/ TV channels etc, not to mention many of their activists, are anything to go by.)

15-20 years ago, right-thinking, leftish middle class types could laugh at the BNP's appeal among thicko lumpen Oldhamers/ Burnleyites/ overspill east enders in Essex etc etc. Now they're in denial as far as I can see, while the contemporary populism/ far right seems to be suceeding in dragging fascism and proto-fascism back to its middle class roots. The likes of the Southport rioters might not be middle class, although a breakdown of their makeup could prove interesting, but they're certainly not without their middle class sympathisers, just waiting for somebody like Farage to come to the rescue. This is a pattern that can be seen right across Europe, cutting right through the horrendous bureaucratic monstrosity called the EU, so beloved of many soft left and liberal types

One major reason the right wing middle classes can indulge their fascistic tendencies is, of course, through the anonymity of social media. It's a God-send for the far-right. I vaguely recall Griffin stressing the need to attract middle management types to the BNP about 20 years ago. Back then it involved sticking your neck out. Now you can just sympathise online until you judge the conditions right to make it safe to pipe up in public.
 
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Yeah. I may be being too optimistic here, but I can see this damaging Farage and harming his support. He may have made a major miscalculation.
It's the easy 'answers' that they provide that gives them the advantages. Farage is far from alone or an outsider or a one man band.

Collapse? I don't think so. All this shit is quite common currency. A miscalculation? Yet to be seen. Polarisation is a deliberate aim and disinformation is legion.

There's a lot of people thriving off and monetising all this.
 
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Yeah. I may be being too optimistic here, but I can see this damaging Farage and harming his support. He may have made a major miscalculation.

I’m less optimistic.


That Danny Tommo wanker is on YouTube inciting more loudmouth hate and the comments section is full up with pricks giving it the right wing large bollocks. Most recent comment only half an hour ago. 1.5k comments so far.

Might look like small numbers but it’s brazen and loud.

I think they’re out the traps now, these arseholes.
 
I wrote this elsewhere about Reform/Farage and their relationship with the MSM:

"It's a symbiotic relationship now.

If an event takes place, it would appear that the first place people go to for their "information" is Social Media and that "information" is shared exponentionally.

The MSM also go to SM to gauge the public mood and/or post up information either supporting what was posted up before, or refuting it.

The trouble is the likes of Farage, Trump et al occupy this grey area whereby they post up questions and seed doubt, so they're not directly inflaming a situation (so they claim), but they're not de-escalating it either.

As you know, the MSM are held to much higher standards than SM (let's leave GBeebies out of this as they're an "entertainment" channel, apparently), SM is basically the Wild West and Nige knows and exploits this.

Unfortunately, he's a democratically-elected official now with a position of responsibility and respectability, not that he's bothered in the slightest about adhering to Parliamentary protocol, 30p isn't either. We are stuck with them and their vile views now, but I do think the MSM should not go to them for their opinions as we all already know in advance what they'll say (they'll blame foreigners)."

Though I do have a confession to make: I don't really use Facebook or Twitter for information, I'd much rather go to Forums and see what other people think/see what links they post up. Probably because most people on there do their research, rather than just mindlessly repeat lies.
 
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Maybe. And in many cases maybe not. There will be a fair few who have steady jobs and families, bit like football hooligans.

Yeah, some guys are just "fighters".. not a new thing and not necessarily from troubled backgrounds or deprived areas. I've known the occasional one, but it's not really the company I'd choose to keep. People (guys) want to fit into a tribe, want to assert dominance, are pumped after booze and maybe some coke, perhaps there is peer pressure or some sort of media influence or hormones... Do rival football fans still knock lumps out of each other? (You don't hear about it so much these days.) Perhaps this sort of shit has replaced football violence?
 
What's striking about the new right populism/fascism is the number of apparently middle class people who, it seems, are either involved or sympathising (if the right-wing social media/ TV channels etc, not to mention many of their activists, are anything to go by.)

15-20 years ago, right-thinking, leftish middle class types could laugh at the BNP's appeal among thicko lumpen Oldhamers/ Burnleyites/ overspill east enders in Essex etc etc. Now they're in denial as far as I can see, while the contemporary populism/ far right seems to be suceeding in dragging fascism and proto-fascism back to its middle class roots. The likes of the Southport rioters might not be middle class, although a breakdown of their makeup could prove interesting, but they're certainly not without their middle class sympathisers, just waiting for somebody like Farage to come to the rescue. This is a pattern that can be seen right across Europe, cutting right through the horrendous bureaucratic monstrosity called the EU, so beloved of many soft left and liberal types

One major reason the right wing middle classes can indulge their fascistic tendencies is, of course, through the anonymity of social media. It's a God-send for the far-right. I vaguely recall Griffin stressing the need to attract middle management types to the BNP about 20 years ago. Back then it involved sticking your neck out. Now you can just sympathise online until you judge the conditions right to make it safe to pipe up in public.

Yes, you can't get much more lumpenproletarian than Sir Oswald Moseley and A K. Chesterton.
 
Yeah, some guys are just "fighters".. not a new thing and not necessarily from troubled backgrounds or deprived areas. I've known the occasional one, but it's not really the company I'd choose to keep. People (guys) want to fit into a tribe, want to assert dominance, are pumped after booze and maybe some coke, perhaps there is peer pressure or some sort of media influence or hormones... Do rival football fans still knock lumps out of each other? (You don't hear about it so much these days.) Perhaps this sort of shit has replaced football violence?

Without wishing to derail the thread, I think the idea that some guys are just fighters is a bit of a cop out.

Not all men are fighters, not all want to fit into a tribe, want to assert dominance, are pumped after booze, or see violence as the best way of resolving things.

I suggest that the reasons why some men are like this are complex, but that it's mainly the result of socialisation and the adoption of patriarchial norms.

The sort of mob violence we've seen or the past few days also overlaps with male violence against women, as discussed on another thread ATM. Though there may not be exactly the same explanations, I suggest there's a lot of similarities.
 
On a slightly more positive note, Mrs SFM was speaking to her folks last night (who live a couple of streets away from the rioting) and her old man said that significant numbers of people from Liverpool and Manchester turned up in the aftermath to help with clearing up the mess in a show of solidarity - possibly to prove that “outsiders” can descend for a positive reason.
 
On a slightly more positive note, Mrs SFM was speaking to her folks last night (who live a couple of streets away from the rioting) and her old man said that significant numbers of people from Liverpool and Manchester turned up in the aftermath to help with clearing up the mess in a show of solidarity - possibly to prove that “outsiders” can descend for a positive reason.
I hadn't heard that, that's good news.
 
Personally I'd send racist pricks on a 6 month homestay in a country where they have a problem with people from. Make them write an essay on what they've learned, and if its not up to scratch they have to do another homestay.

Thats probably too nice for them though, its an amazing experience to live in other countries. But it works wonders for opening the mind and soul.
How is this gonna stop government from dividing communities, othering people and steering hatred? Stop SM from giving platforms, firing algorithms back at people and playing their part in organising?
 
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