Euros Final - Italy v England - Sunday 11/07 - 20:00

[Lord Camomile]

Still fuming at that penalty selection to be honest. It looks stupider and stupider in the cold light of day.

I really, really, really hope he didn't pick them to make some kind of political point that has now backfired dreadfully but the suspicion is there.

It was Southgate's pick apparently, not volunteers.

They were the best penalty takers in training, apparently. Don't know about Saka and Sancho, but Rashford has a proven track record too, and arguably did everything right (in that he sent Donnarumma the wrong way), except, y'know, a couple of inches off target (which yes, arguably is the most important bit...).

As others on this thread have pointed out, who else was there and on what criteria would you be picking them? I mean, it certainly doesn't sit comfortably with me having players so young taking the most important penalties in our nation's history, but in terms of "good at taking penalties" Henderson missed his last one (and SI said has only ever taken one for Liverpool?), Grealish likewise doesn't take many.

Maybe that doesn't matter, and Southgate shouldn't have put three young men in such a pressure situation, and arguably three black men in the potential firing line, but trusting the players that he believes are the best penalty takers..? There's been far worse reasons to pick players.

 

[Diamond]

The other problem is that Sancho and Saka's penalties by any standard were not good. Rashford's could have worked and was probably a worthwhile gamble to take but after that failed the younger lads didn't really compete against Donnarumma - they were very easy saves. Heads had gone and why not - they're 21 and 19. Probably a bit of inexperience there from all of them anyway - just follow the lead of Kane and Maguire and go for placement and power.

 

[Rebelda]

I just heard on the news that a mural of him in Manchester has been defaced

Rashford mural defaced after his penalty miss in England Euro 2020 final defeat

Marcus Rashford was one of the men to miss a penalty for England in their Euro 2020 final defeat to Italy and has subsequently seen a mural of himself in Manchester defaced

www.mirror.co.uk

I don't think I can support England anymore. There are just too many cunts who support them. Booing every single anthem. Booing the taking of the knee. And now this all too predictable reaction.

"Any more" So players get one less voice drowning the racists out? Great decision that.

Gay icon murals in Manchester got defaced during pride week. Divina de Campo's got done when they called it out. Cunts are cunts and will take any opportunity to be so.

 

[Rebelda]

If you're going to be a penalty taker you have to take your first high profile high pressure one at some point. Might as well take it under Southgate's wing.

 

[strung out]

I agree with this. But I think he could have changed his selection as it became clear that a 19yo kid with limited experience was about to take a career and life defining kick, maybe he was just too rigid in his 'list'

You submit your list before the shoot out and can't change it.

 

[Petcha]

You submit your list before the shoot out and can't change it.

Ah ok. Didn't know that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Still fuming at that penalty selection to be honest. It looks stupider and stupider in the cold light of day.

I really, really, really hope he didn't pick them to make some kind of political point that has now backfired dreadfully but the suspicion is there.

It was Southgate's pick apparently, not volunteers.

oh ffs you've been doing so well you're better than this

 

[Johnny Doe]

They were the best penalty takers in training, apparently. Don't know about Saka and Sancho, but Rashford has a proven track record too, and arguably did everything right (in that he sent Donnarumma the wrong way), except, y'know, a couple of inches off target (which yes, arguably is the most important bit...).

As others on this thread have pointed out, who else was there and on what criteria would you be picking them? I mean, it certainly doesn't sit comfortably with me having players so young taking the most important penalties in our nation's history, but in terms of "good at taking penalties" Henderson missed his last one (and SI said has only ever taken one for Liverpool?), Grealish likewise doesn't take many.

Maybe that doesn't matter, and Southgate shouldn't have put three young men in such a pressure situation, and arguably three black men in the potential firing line, but trusting the players that he believes are the best penalty takers..? There's been far worse reasons to pick players.

Rashford's was a small percentage off being the best pen of the night. Whether he left himself such a small margin of error because of the pressure who knows. Easy to be wise after the event, but penalties are all about pressure, or they'd all get scored. With no pressure, the keeper has no chance, but in that situation, you can't put that on a kid Saka's age. It's not that often I feel sorry for pampered millionaires, but he seems like a nice kid and he'll be hurting today

 

[Sprocket.]

Anyway, let’s get ready for Hungary on the 2nd of September.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Rashford and Sancho as pen takers are solid choices. I think it's kind of silly to call that out after the fact. As I said last night, I've seen specialist pen takers come on at the end before and that tactic working.

Saka? He was clearly up for it. Southgate gave him the vote of confidence. I'm not going to criticise that either. Tough how it worked out - half-thinking he wouldn't have to take it, then stepping up knowing he had to score. Just about the hardest circumstance imaginable.

Of course, if he hadn't missed or if someone else had taken it and scored, then the sixth pen taker would have been under the same pressure, and so on... He'd have had to step up at some point.

 

[Petcha]

I've always thought goalkeepers should be fairly high up the list of penalty takers. It's not like they can't kick. And they certainly understand the mentality of the person they're shooting against better than anyone else on the team.

 

[Pickman's model]

if you look back at the germany penalties of 1996 what struck me was they all went into the top corner. and that's what the england team should be aiming for. something which is clearly beyond the keeper's ability to save. of course, under southgate - unlike some other managers - you know great attention will be paid to penalties. but thorough training targeting those top corners might instil the sort of muscle memory that's needed at such stressful times as shootouts.

 

[magneze]

The other problem is that Sancho and Saka's penalties by any standard were not good. Rashford's could have worked and was probably a worthwhile gamble to take but after that failed the younger lads didn't really compete against Donnarumma - they were very easy saves. Heads had gone and why not - they're 21 and 19. Probably a bit of inexperience there from all of them anyway - just follow the lead of Kane and Maguire and go for placement and power.

So, your selection for penalties were?

 

[Lord Camomile]

I've realised I can support England, well certainly this current generation, as a team - because they're all boss as individuals. But I've no inclination to go to a match, sadly a disproportionate number of the 'fans' are the kind of people you see in a pub and then walk straight out again....

They really do make it fucking hard, and certainly contribute to the fact I'm not as invested in England's successes and failures as much as I used to be.

Do you remember what happened to Beckham after the 1998 World Cup?

That was pretty awful - didn't someone rename their pub or something...?

Really hope these three young lads won't get it in the neck but playing United with Rashford and Sancho up front next season could see a few boos.

I said to my mum before the game, "I just really hope there aren't any villains/scapegoats this evening". I have some hope that there will be more people ready to defend the players and shout the knobheads down this time round than for Beckham, but that's only going to do so much.

But, personally, I do hope as a nation we confront it head on, and don't just sideline it to "a few cunts" and try to ignore it.

the right answer is only known after the fact.

I think that's one of the things that often irritates me about football analysis - so many opinions change based on the result of a match that contains so many variables and chance. Sure, sometimes you can absolutely see what went wrong, but just as often you can't have a genuine idea what would have happened if different decisions were made.

It wasn't even that great a chance, but I'm still thinking about what would have happened if Saka had got away from Chiellni He'd actually robbed Chiellini of the ball to, he hadn't just got the ball and punted it past him.

Five out of the ten taken last night were missed.

That was quite remarkable, although arguably even more so given that four were saved. They got close to a couple of others, I think, too. Good night for the 'keepers.

 

[The39thStep]

They were the best penalty takers in training, apparently. Don't know about Saka and Sancho, but Rashford has a proven track record too, and arguably did everything right (in that he sent Donnarumma the wrong way), except, y'know, a couple of inches off target (which yes, arguably is the most important bit...).

As others on this thread have pointed out, who else was there and on what criteria would you be picking them? I mean, it certainly doesn't sit comfortably with me having players so young taking the most important penalties in our nation's history, but in terms of "good at taking penalties" Henderson missed his last one (and SI said has only ever taken one for Liverpool?), Grealish likewise doesn't take many.

Maybe that doesn't matter, and Southgate shouldn't have put three young men in such a pressure situation, and arguably three black men in the potential firing line, but trusting the players that he believes are the best penalty takers..? There's been far worse reasons to pick players.

Jorginho who is one of the best penalty takers in Europe also missed

 

[Lord Camomile]

go for placement and power.

I mean, sure, but fucking easier said than done, otherwise everyone would be doing it!

 

[Lord Camomile]

Jorginho who is one of the best penalty takers in Europe also missed

Well, quite.

Although, again, I wouldn't say he missed so much as Pickford got 'im good...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Jorginho who is one of the best penalty takers in Europe also missed

Exactly. Their banker, placed at five. That was the best save of the lot, mind you.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Loving the punditry on this thread. Apparently the players should have kicked their penalties in the goal. Wish Southgate and his team had been fed this vital bit of info beforehand rather than making it up as they went along.

 

[The39thStep]

Exactly. Their banker, placed at five. That was the best save of the lot, mind you.

Probably cost him player of the tournament

 

[The39thStep]

Loving the punditry on this thread. Apparently the players should have kicked their penalties in the goal. Wish Southgate and his team had been fed this vital bit of info beforehand rather than making it up as they went along.

The debate on whether players were picked for penalties to make a political point and whether black players should have been chosen to take penalties is most disturbing lunacy

 

[Johnny Doe]

if you look back at the germany penalties of 1996 what struck me was they all went into the top corner. and that's what the england team should be aiming for. something which is clearly beyond the keeper's ability to save. of course, under southgate - unlike some other managers - you know great attention will be paid to penalties. but thorough training targeting those top corners might instil the sort of muscle memory that's needed at such stressful times as shootouts.

Against a 6ft 5 keeper? Bottom corner all day long.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A word on Pickford. Probably England's MoM yesterday. I was worried there was a calamity around the corner. There wasn't.

 

[Pickman's model]

Against a 6ft 5 keeper? Bottom corner all day long.

the inch difference with david seaman makes all the difference

 

[The39thStep]

Against a 6ft 5 keeper? Bottom corner all day long.

Interestingly enough he is out of contract at the moment

 

[Rebelda]

Saka will have his redemption penalty and I will have another gif to cry at. Come on WC 2022.

 

[Athos]

So much of it is confidence that you can only go with volunteers. And then have them take the pens in the order of anticipated effectiveness (no point saving best to last as you could've lost by then). You can't really fault Southgate's tactics for the shootout (albeit you might for the lack of positivity earlier in the match). And you can't really fault the penalty takers; at least they stepped up when other older, more experienced heads who've been through the tension of big matches didn't.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Rashford's was the key miss, anyhow. And every manager would have Rashford in their five pen takers.

So it goes.

 

[Johnny Doe]

the inch difference with david seaman makes all the difference

I'd go bottom corner against all keepers, I do in fact, having had the only one I've ever lifted saved. My redemption, scoring the winning pen in the semi-final of The London Old Boys Veterans Cup, the following season, was quite the scene!

 

[ska invita]

I've said it before I'll say it again

Golden rule: never ever ever pissabout on the run up to a pen