During the biggest crisis of capitalism of our generation, why is the UK anarcho-left not growing?
- Thread starter Random
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ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Absolutely.
"Solutions" that are reducible to "fall in behind the party, they'll look after you" are the counsel of idiots.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
I've found some of them to be quite 'pro community' in the organic sense of the word.
They seem to be mostly youngsters who are sorting things out in their head and struggling with the idea of feeling pro-social but anti-Government.
But then, like you say, there is the majority who as far as I can tell just seem to have fantasies about being Bond villains with an underground lair filled with bikini-clad babes.
As far as I understand it (and that might not be as much as is possible) in a corporative state the army and police would enforce the corporate bodies views in Italy the Fascists and the Catholic church.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Interesting that there's a concentration on studying and understanding the underlying logistics of power and governance as well as the structures (and infrastructures) that feed them.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
on top of a mountain sketching the sacred sign of the dollar ffs
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
No, of course scapegoating, loss of right to assembly and a more punitive criminal justice practice don't affect "the average law-abiding citizen", because obviously such citizens don't get scapegoated etc.
There's been a massive surge in anti-social behaviour against people with disabilities due to government propaganda. I suppose they're not "average law-abiding citizens"?
Stop and search continues to be based on race, but hey, they're not ""average law-abiding citizens", are they?
The right to protest has been eroded, but obviously protesters aren't ""average law-abiding citizens" either, are they?
You're either trolling or you're so stupid that you should become a Labour MP.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
does this mean you can't think of an example?
who doesn't?
No-they don't affect people unless they get caught up in criminal activity or get involved in protest. Most people don't. Most people seem to support stop and search, believing, rightly or wrongly, that it protects them from criminals. Reinforcing these ideas (as well as spreading the views of those who oppose these measure-to little discernible impact) is the inescapable mass media.
The alleged massive surge in anti-social behaviour against people with disabilities due to government propaganda is not exactly the same issue.
I'm not saying all this amounts to something good; I'm just offering some suggestions as to why people are not attracted by radical left politics.
Random
Ethnic nalgocrat
I take your point that it's a bit wrong to talk about law abiding, but all these groups that you mention are being successfully marginalised. Over here in Sweden the government is also succeeding largely because they're hugging on to the fat middle part of the bell Curve and only attacking the unemployed, the young and immigrants.
Things are getting worse for lots of people, but segregation is also rising, making sure that there's no mass experience of things getting worse, that could inspire solidarity. Very clever salami strategy.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Ah yes, the auld "hold me back lest I rend this knave limb from limb' line. Rather than address your own shortcomings, or for you to put me on ignore...
The process has been visible since people started talking, in the 1980s, about the creation of a two-tier society where the working class increasingly turns against itself, the better-off elements (or those that perceive themselves as better-off regardless of the reality) seeing those below them and marginalised elements as the main enemy. It was a successful strategy as we are seeing, and possibly irreversible.
(Of course, when you're stuck on a sink estate and plagued by crime and anti-social behaviour, the perpetrators actually are the most immediate enemy.)
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I think the current crises may well see it reversed- for example those who are anti-workfare spotting that making doleys do their jobs means they lose their own position. It's the big one lletsa- not a minor dip. And people are getting angrier, anger not reserved for the 'feckless lumpen'
Indeed.
People are getting so angry that they'll vote the present system and its crisis back in next election. Watch this space.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
tbh I do see a reaction coming, and not from those who never had fuck all even in the 'good' times but from those that did and now do not. Whatdirection that takes remains to be seen, it might not be one I'd cheerlead...
It'll take the direction of voting in Labour, who will continue to manage the crisis at the expense of the majority. Or maybe the direction of re-electing the Tories.
Do you want to bet on it?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'm not a gambling man- but you get gloating rights if no mass protests and/or riots/street movements/etc have kicked off by 2015
I can see the middle classes becoming more reactionary than they are normally, but a lot of it will be done through voting for either of the mainstream parties, thinking their own interests can be protected and the 'rabble' (who they're not very far from joining) kept safely out of the way.
I haven't said mass protests or riots won't take place. But as recent decades have already told us, mass protests have become a mere safety valve for the system (with the majority of the working class, let alone the population as a whole, having no time for them). Riots, meanwhile, as we saw last year, will likely take the form of the marginalised violently turning on the mainstream working class.
And when it's all over everybody will vote Labour. Or Tory.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Patently incorrect. They affect anyone who can be suspected or accused of getting caught up in criminal activity.
Are you one of those fools who believes in "if you've nothing to fear, you've nothing to hide"?
I see that you're going for the favoured LLETSA tropes of "most people seem". I'll see if I can find the HO stats that show that S & S isn't supported by more than a minority of people, and hasn't been for about 10 years.
Is this to become your eternal refrain alongside "it's all going to Hell in a handcart": that we're all fooled by the media?
It's of a piece with the other issues: Standard authoritarian practice to displace criticism of the regime, and the surge in antisocial behavior is very real, from verbals right up to physical assault. There's nothing "alleged" about the fact that reported instances have surged, and that they've done so in fairly close step with government propaganda.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
"Everybody"? That's quite a presumption. The two main parties may attract the largest numbers of votes but that doesn't mean that everybody will vote for them.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"Law-abiding" are LLETSA's words, I'm using them back at him to show that even by his criteria, his claims are shite.
Yes, one that's been discussed on here at some length.
Erode the solidarities - divide and conquer. We've seen this most forcefully in the UK with the way the state has pretty much broken the old solidarities among various "racial" groups so that they've all withdrawn into representing their own niche, rather than "blacks" (using the old self-definition of the '70s and '80s that encompassed most non-whites as a single "community of interest") overall.I'm not denying that they can sometimes affect people inadvertently caught up in criminal activity. Again, though, that's a small minority, so the majority doesn't care.
Are you seriously denying that most people don't actively protest?
Yes, we are constantly fooled by the mass media, which reduces everything to one big insane babble. We have never seen this situation before and don't yet know what the outcome will be.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I'm advocating or supporting something here when, as I said, I'm merely trying to offer explanations in line with the OP.
Enough people then. The minority parties, especially the left minority parties (or more likely cobbled together coalitions of mutually hostile sects), will be where they always are: nowhere.
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