Do you disapprove of people who are planning an overseas holiday this summer?

[MickiQ]

The big risk to travel right now is if a family of four is headed to Spain or wherever, the kids will need a test and if taken the day before travel and it comes up positive you lose the whole holiday unless you have managed to track down insurance that covers it. Likewise the test on the day prior to your return could see a kid forced to quarantine in Spain for 2 weeks when you are due back at work and they at school...

Well my kids are adults now (Youngest is 19) and wouldn't come with us but I feel even smugger thinking about that. We're not even having a holiday in the UK just days out when Mrs Q finishes school for the summer.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Well my kids are adults now (Youngest is 19) and wouldn't come with us but I feel even smugger thinking about that. We're not even having a holiday in the UK just days out when Mrs Q finishes school for the summer.

Is it CoVId related smugness? If your vaxxed and/or tested and the same coming back, what more could you do protect yourself and others?

 

[bimble]

Ehrm, Switzerland still considers the UK to be a high risk country, Corona: Questions and answers on entry and stay in Switzerland, the exceptions and suspension of visas

Doesn’t matter, proof of vaccinated status still allows entry.

 

[spanglechick]

Is it CoVId related smugness? If your vaxxed and/or tested and the same coming back, what more could you do protect yourself and others?

Not travel from a country with lots of COVID cases to one with a lot fewer.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Not travel from a country with lots of COVID cases to one with a lot fewer.

Point taken. In our defence, the numbers were pretty similar when we decided early in June, that we'd try and get away at the start of the kids summer holidays. Changed a lot since

 

[kabbes]

Depends what you mean by kids, for Spain that means people under 12, for Greece it is under 6.

Edit, from 12th July Greece ups the age to 12.

Where’s the logic in that? Kids are just as much a vector of the disease as adults are.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Where’s the logic in that? Kids are just as much a vector of the disease as adults are.

I think we are all saying it's illogical

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Where’s the logic in that? Kids are just as much a vector of the disease as adults are.

Logic? Have you seen any government deploy logic during this whole pandemic?

 

[MickiQ]

Is it CoVId related smugness? If your vaxxed and/or tested and the same coming back, what more could you do protect yourself and others?

Actually no it's not related to CoVID at all, If I was able to go somewhere without having to worry about all this testing or isolation nonsense then I'd do it. What I'm feeling smug about is not having to book a holiday, wonder if it will get cancelled at the last moment, sort out tests just before we go, run the risk of having to quarantiine at the other end, sort out another test on holiday in a foreign land, risk being stranded there and having to hunt for somewhere to stay (maybe not finding anywhere), sort out more foreign tests, rinse and repeat until (a lot poorer) I finally get on a plane home, risk being stuffed in some crappy airport hotel for a week. To add insult to injury I would be expected to pay for all this shit as well. I just can't be arsed with any of it I go on holiday to relax, get a break and catch some sunshine.
Set against all the potential aggro, the possibility of catching CoVID doesn't bother me at all, even the possibility of being patient zero for the super deadly Epsilon strain with a 50% death rate doesn't bother me as much as the thought of all the aggro I would have to go through to be able to sunbathe on a Spanish beach rather than my own patio.

 

[Johnny Doe]

Actually no it's not related to CoVID at all, If I was able to go somewhere without having to worry about all this testing or isolation nonsense then I'd do it. What I'm feeling smug about is not having to book a holiday, wonder if it will get cancelled at the last moment, sort out tests just before we go, run the risk of having to quarantiine at the other end, sort out another test on holiday in a foreign land, risk being stranded there and having to hunt for somewhere to stay (maybe not finding anywhere), sort out more foreign tests, rinse and repeat until (a lot poorer) I finally get on a plane home, risk being stuffed in some crappy airport hotel for a week. To add insult to injury I would be expected to pay for all this shit as well. I just can't be arsed with any of it I go on holiday to relax, get a break and catch some sunshine.
Set against all the potential aggro, the possibility of catching CoVID doesn't bother me at all, even the possibility of being patient zero for the super deadly Epsilon strain with a 50% death rate doesn't bother me as much as the thought of all the aggro I would have to go through to be able to sunbathe on a Spanish beach rather than my own patio.

Yeah, can't say it's been aggro free arranging it all, and after all of the admin and costs, if my missus tests positive before we go, we're not. (That said I've done all the arranging, my kids don't know about it yet for fear we have to cancel, so 3/4 of us have had no aggro!)

On the other side of the coin, most of the costs in the situations you've mentioned are covered by our insurance.

 

[prunus]

We're flying out there Friday week. We have to prove double-jab, or PCR negative 72 hours before flight. And to return, you have to test in the 72 hours before your return and PCR test on your 3rd day back. I'd like to think following this avoids bringing anything back and I was double jabbed a month ago.

You might like to think that but unfortunately it doesn’t. It definitely lowers the probability significantly, but being double-jabbed only gives about 65% protection against infection, and 72 hours testing windows (either side of return) is plenty of time to pick up and spread an infection - conversely (and perversely) 72 hours post return may be too short a time for an infection picked up prior to departure to have developed sufficiently to be detected.

Not having a go, it’s all about risk assessments at the moment, but it’s important I think that people are aware that mitigation strategies only mitigate risk, they don’t as you express the hope that they do eliminate it.

 

[Johnny Doe]

You might like to think that but unfortunately it doesn’t. It definitely lowers the probability significantly, but being double-jabbed only gives about 65% protection against infection, and 72 hours testing windows (either side of return) is plenty of time to pick up and spread an infection - conversely (and perversely) 72 hours post return may be too short a time for an infection picked up prior to departure to have developed sufficiently to be detected.

Not having a go, it’s all about risk assessments at the moment, but it’s important I think that people are aware that mitigation strategies only mitigate risk, they don’t as you express the hope that they do eliminate it.

Yes, I accept we're only reducing risk, not eliminating. We're also testing the kids with NHS kits before we go, as we aren't required to test them to travel, and if they were positive we'd report it and cancel.

 

[bimble]

I feel really conflicted about this trip i've planned for end of the month. My parents are ridiculously happy that i'm coming to see them but it's just a guess really on my part that doing it now is better than trying to do it later in the year.

 

[prunus]

I feel really conflicted about this trip i've planned for end of the month. My parents are ridiculously happy that i'm coming to see them but it's just a guess really on my part that doing it now is better than trying to do it later in the year.

I think it’s pretty much a certainty that the prevalence of virus now is less than it will be for the rest of this year - it’s both the government’s official strategy and what people warning against the government’s strategy expect to happen (I suppose there may be a point in say November when cases have come back down again after an emergency lockdown is re-introduced in October following a catastrophic September surge, but that would be moot for your travel plans as, well, lockdown).

 

[Johnny Doe]

I feel really conflicted about this trip i've planned for end of the month. My parents are ridiculously happy that i'm coming to see them but it's just a guess really on my part that doing it now is better than trying to do it later in the year.

You can go now, you can't be sure if you can in future. If you parents are of a certain age, there is only so much time, as horrible as that is to consider. We spent 15 months with the kids seeing my folks, masked up inside their window, kids stood just inside their front garden, for 5 mins each Sunday. Now they are jabbed, the kids go inside for an hour each week. We're all still scared, but my Dad nearly died last summer, is 75 today, with Parkinsons, if not now, when?

 

[bimble]

Yep exactly, happy birthday your dad.

 

[MickiQ]

And still feeling smug

Covid: Travellers returning to England warned of six-hour airport queues

Border Force staff will struggle to deal with a surge in passengers over the summer, a union says.

www.bbc.com

 

[kabbes]

My friend booked a holiday in Portugal in July for her family of four back in March. I thought she was nuts to do it then and it’s pretty much panned out exactly as expected — a constant stress of what tests to arrange, changing country safety status, changing local restrictions and generalised anxiety.

Would you believe that having had this trip cancelled, she then booked another trip in the same time slot — to Ibiza this time — and now that one has been cancelled too? I’d like to say that I managed to express some sympathy but I’m afraid I’m just not that good an actor.

 

[The39thStep]

And still feeling smug

Covid: Travellers returning to England warned of six-hour airport queues

Border Force staff will struggle to deal with a surge in passengers over the summer, a union says.

www.bbc.com

When have ever Border Control not struggled to deal with passengers in July and August ?

 

[MickiQ]

When have ever Border Control not struggled to deal with passengers in July and August ?

That's usually the time of year the Q's go through passport control and I've certainly never taken longer than 20-30 mins tops to go from landing to stuffing the suitcases in the boot of the car

 

[The39thStep]

That's usually the time of year the Q's go through passport control and I've certainly never taken longer than 20-30 mins tops to go from landing to stuffing the suitcases in the boot of the car

Try arriving in Manchester , it’s carnage . Mind you the late flight to Faro is queue city

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The Windsor Suite reopens on 15th July, no queues in there, some people just like to moan.

 

[MickiQ]

The Windsor Suite reopens on 15th July, no queues in there, some people just like to moan.

I bet these arseholes don't have to take their belts and shoes off.

 

[weltweit]

The current Javid / Johnson thinking, that double vaccinated people can return from abroad without quarantine (though with tests) runs the risk of people bringing back new variants into the UK. We can see how fast a new variant can spread by the cases of Delta in the UK at the moment. Get just one new variant that escapes the vaccine in here and we are all sitting ducks.

IMO It is too early to open up international travel.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The current Javid / Johnson thinking, that double vaccinated people can return from abroad without quarantine (though with tests) runs the risk of people bringing back new variants into the UK. We can see how fast a new variant can spread by the cases of Delta in the UK at the moment. Get just one new variant that escapes the vaccine in here and we are all sitting ducks.

IMO It is too early to open up international travel.

TBF, the ways thing are going, I think the UK could become world leader in producing & exporting new variants.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

TBF, the ways thing are going, I think the UK could become world leader in producing & exporting new variants.

The U.K. currently has some of the toughest restrictions in Europe;

Germany allows you in with no tests at all if vaccinated.
Likewise Spain and Italy (for 5 days max from the U.K.)
France requires one test.

and so on.

At some point things need to open, sure the numbers of infections here are going through the roof, but deaths and hospitalisations, whilst rising a bit, are not going up anywhere near in line with the infection rate. Germany’s death rate is almost identical to ours with only 10% of the infections. At some point we have to trust the vaccines and get back to normal, sure it is not 100% effective, neither is the flu vaccine, we seem to be happy with thousands of flu deaths each year, surely at some point we need to accept the same with Covid??

 

[cupid_stunt]

Did you mean to quote weltweit, Bahnhof Strasse?

Because, your reply has nothing to do with my post, that you actually quoted.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Did you mean to quote weltweit, Bahnhof Strasse?

Because, your reply has nothing to do with my post, that you actually quoted.

No, I quoted you. I don’t see why the U.K. should be variant central when other local countries are far more open than we are.

Germany closed the doors to us until last week cos of Delta Variant; for every positive Covid test we had we test 50% for variants, Germany test less than 2%. Once they actually started looking they saw it was everywhere, which is why they no longer view it as a danger.

The U.K., India and South Africa test a huge percentage of positive cases for variants and guess what, they get to see them first, then get blamed for them. I have never taken a Covid test, so I am 100% Covid and variant free…

 

[Me76]

I've had my summer holiday this year. Went to Bath for 2 days. It was lovely and I enjoyed it just as much as if I'd gone to another country.

Still worried about whether I've been infected though, it was busy. But I will take a lft on Sunday and see.

 

[cupid_stunt]

No, I quoted you. I don’t see why the U.K. should be variant central when other local countries are far more open than we are.

My point was about the rates of infection going through the roof in the UK, and we are about to drop all internal restrictions, including bloody masks, and let it rip. The more virus circulating, the bigger the chance of another mutation, and another unpleasant variant for us to export, but that's a problem for other countries if they want to let travellers from the UK in.

I am fairly relaxed about the opening up to certain countries by making it easier for travel & return to the UK, if they have lower infection rates, whilst keeping a tight lock on 'red list' countries, because as you say, it has to happen at some point.

Germany closed the doors to us until last week cos of Delta Variant; for every positive Covid test we had we test 50% for variants, Germany test less than 2%. Once they actually started looking they saw it was everywhere, which is why they no longer view it as a danger.

Yes, I am aware of that, and whilst Delta is already there, it hasn't taken off like it has here yet, considering we are averaging around 30k new cases a day, and they are only on around 700, with a larger population.

So, they still rightly consider us an ‘high-incidence area’, and you still need a negative COVID-19 test result, proof of a full COVID-19 vaccination or proof of recovery from an infection to avoid quarantine, so that massively reduces the risk of a UK traveller bringing in more of the Delta variant and acting as a super spreader. But, they are still taking a gamble.

The U.K., India and South Africa test a huge percentage of positive cases for variants and guess what, they get to see them first, then get blamed for them.

I am not convinced it as clear cut as that, sure the UK leads the world in genomic sequencing, and it's possible that is why we picked up on the Kent variant first, but it's highly likely it did mutant here, because we saw the massive uptick in cases before any other other country, then it started to be picked-up elsewhere, followed by them seeing the massive uptick in overall cases.

In fact, India does very little genomic sequencing*, and indeed very little general testing, running at under one tenth of the UK, yet they still spotted the Delta amongst a massive uptick in cases, before it then got picked-up elsewhere, resulting in massive uptick in overall cases in those countries.

* India has sequenced 11,047 of the 1.4 million samples sequenced worldwide.

The bottom line remains, the more virus circulating, the greater the chances of it mutating into a more troublesome variant, it's basic maths.