littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not just tell you you need to be tested but arrange then and there for the test to be sent out to you.
Contact Tracing: Will You Self Isolate? (and related discussion)
- Thread starter Spymaster
- Start date
andysays
Love and solidarity
I don't think many/any here are expecting the government to be a moral guide.
Most people, here and elsewhere, have observed the lockdown because they recognise it's the best thing to do, just as most people will self isolate (or even better, get tested) if they are told they have been in significant contact with someone else who has tested positive.
But on purely pragmatic grounds, it's valid to point out than there are some people who don't have the financial security to be able to stop work without support, either during a general lockdown or to quarantine themselves after a contact has tested positive, and if the government doesn't provide such support, the measures won't be as effective as they could be.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah it's a numbers game. What is the best way to get maximum benefit from the system.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
Oh I know, I know. I wouldn't have expected anything else but it's so WEAK, though. He's been so terrified of offending millionaires that all the advice has been piss weak, no one's been called in to account for their actions, he GOT the disease by being a wishy-washy bellend, and the fact that an old man with a walking frame was raising funds for the NHS and he never thought this was an odd message when people on the frontline didn't even have face masks.
Why on earth, after all that, would anyone trust an app that apparently came from the same source? This is entirely different to the fact that most of us have and will continue to do our bit. Because we are better than that.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I agree, everyone identified in this way should be tested.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yep. If I'm contacted I'll try to do the right thing, but no way I'm getting the app. Quite simply don't trust them enough. I suspect the app is never going to happen, mind.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I agree that's important to find asymptomatic cases, so testing all who have been in contact with someone who has tested positive is the way to go.
But until there was/is a way of identifying those people, I don't thinking simply testing anyone and everyone, symptomatic or not, would have been effective.
Which then throws up the question of why it's taken so long to get to this very basic test and trace system running...
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I won't get the app either. I think if I'm contacted and told to isolate without symptoms I'll get myself tested. If that's negative probably go about things as usual as the only person I get within 2 meters of for any length of time is Mrs Spy anyway.
Why I quit working on Boris Johnson's ‘world-beating' test-and-tracing system | Anonymous
This programme is not fit to bring Britain out of lockdown, says an anonymous customer service adviser
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Many here may not be, but do not underestimate the ability of an awful lot of people to treat things coming from government as pretty much holy writ. I've got into a couple of scuffles with people on FB who thought, for example, that sitting in a room with someone for 50 minutes (counselling, as it happens) would be OK provided you maintained the 2m social distancing.
Remember, if you think you are of average intelligence, then you are smarter than (roughly) half of everyone else. Which is all the more reason to have a credible, trustworthy source of guidance and strategy which those of us who "get" the principles behind can use as a general guide, but which still offers a simple protocol for people who prefer to have rules, even if they want to break them. What we actually have is a confusing, mixed picture that lacks credibility or authority (and that's even before we get onto the Cummings Peregrinations).
If I had been the cunt in charge, one of the things I'd have wanted to do fairly early on would have been to sit down with the Welsh, Scottish, and NI first ministers and agreed a joint, collaborative approach. Absolutely no fucking chance of anything like that happening with this cartload of clowns, though.
I dont' disagree with any of that. It did seem a couple of posters were saying they'd ignore the self isolate request because the govt.
I think the potential for mischief, as far as pretending to be calling as a contact tracer, is mitigated by the fact you also have to receive a letter... Actually I'd hope they'd give you some sort of unique signature / sequence number that can be verified online when they call you.
As for the fabled app. I haven't decided. If it needs to be in the foreground, phone unlocked, with Bluetooth on all the time, then definitely no. Phone theft / battery too week / mishap / fucking stupid.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I have reservations about the app too - but in a way, the clusterfuck that is the whole approach so far means that the app's shortcomings (shortCummings?) are pretty much a moot point, IMO.
I've not been looking TBF but not heard much about how it's working on the Isle of Wight.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Just to be clear, how will the T&T team know (how) to contact you if you don't have the app?
Thora
Differently Ethical
When someone tests positive, they will be asked to name everyone they've had prolonged contact with.
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
report your single contact as will self and watch the chaos unfold 
Mogden
I like tea
The app isn't active yet. The Blue Peter solution for now is if you test positive, you have to tell them all the people you've been in contact with and they will use that list to contact them and say you might need testing a la clap clinic when you test positive.
The app will be the tech solution of this, if it ever happens.
ETA Yes, prolonged contact rather than just breezing past.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
if some one gets the call do they go on a list for further financial support measures?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Statutory sick pay. That's it.
Don't know if there is any protection against this going on your work record.
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
I'm not getting the app, should it be ready at some point, but I would self-isolate if contacted, for sure.
Had to do 14 days a few weeks ago. Am barely going out, and certainly not far, anyway. Work would be ok with it. Can't see a good reason not to. Which in no way endorses the shit show, I just don't want to spread or catch this virus.
Had to do 14 days a few weeks ago. Am barely going out, and certainly not far, anyway. Work would be ok with it. Can't see a good reason not to. Which in no way endorses the shit show, I just don't want to spread or catch this virus.
pseudonarcissus
fluttering and dancing
I assume it’s like the clap...they won’t tell you!
for perfectly good reason. They will have your number because the person they interviewed you had it on their phone
Hah, the internet is moving way too fast for me, at lot of this has now been covered, but I'll post it anyway:
As I understand, the whole thing is built around a set of assumptions, supported by what's been studied so far.
Infectiousness is highest a couple of days before onset of symptoms and the first few days of symptomaticness.
So if a person develops symptoms, the people they have been in close contact with a few days beforehand will be contacted to quarantine.
The fourteen days is due to the incubation period (I think the very latest research shows that it may not be quite this long, but let's just assume that it is for now). They could develop symptoms (or be infected but not show symptoms) at any time from 3 days to 2 weeks after contact with the infected person. And it's only at that point that a test would work.
Why not everyone gets tested around the 3-5 day mark might indeed be a capacity issue, or again based on the assumption that someone might develop symptoms as late as 14 days later.
If they actually develop symptoms they will get tested in turn, and I imagine their whole household asked to quarantine as well.
The 14 days would also take the majority of asymptomatic cases that have developed from the initial contact out of circulation and prevent them passing on the infection.
I 100% agree that there needs to be adequate and immediate financial support to enable people to quarantine. Full sick pay rather than statutory, or hey - how about a rent / utilities break for the duration or whatever. But this is clearly crucial.
And yes, I would stay at home for two weeks absolutely.
Though interesting scenario with the holiday for example that Spy mentioned, considering that this will be with us for some time. Again, personally the last thing I would want to do is worry about infecting a plane load of people, but it could clearly become an issue for people and again one that would need to be worked out between government/ holiday and insurance companies and customers.
As I understand, the whole thing is built around a set of assumptions, supported by what's been studied so far.
Infectiousness is highest a couple of days before onset of symptoms and the first few days of symptomaticness.
So if a person develops symptoms, the people they have been in close contact with a few days beforehand will be contacted to quarantine.
The fourteen days is due to the incubation period (I think the very latest research shows that it may not be quite this long, but let's just assume that it is for now). They could develop symptoms (or be infected but not show symptoms) at any time from 3 days to 2 weeks after contact with the infected person. And it's only at that point that a test would work.
Why not everyone gets tested around the 3-5 day mark might indeed be a capacity issue, or again based on the assumption that someone might develop symptoms as late as 14 days later.
If they actually develop symptoms they will get tested in turn, and I imagine their whole household asked to quarantine as well.
The 14 days would also take the majority of asymptomatic cases that have developed from the initial contact out of circulation and prevent them passing on the infection.
I 100% agree that there needs to be adequate and immediate financial support to enable people to quarantine. Full sick pay rather than statutory, or hey - how about a rent / utilities break for the duration or whatever. But this is clearly crucial.
And yes, I would stay at home for two weeks absolutely.
Though interesting scenario with the holiday for example that Spy mentioned, considering that this will be with us for some time. Again, personally the last thing I would want to do is worry about infecting a plane load of people, but it could clearly become an issue for people and again one that would need to be worked out between government/ holiday and insurance companies and customers.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I'll be self isolating for at least another four weeks.
Yeah, just SSP> Which isn't great.
As LBJ says, these should absolutely not go on your sick record.
Yeah but what if you get this call in 6 months? This is going to be in place for the foreseeable.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Were that to arise, yes, I would self-isolate.
I have practised 'barrier nursing' since the start of this, for my own protection.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Good question. Neither Mrs Sas or me have smart phones, we have mobiles but basic ones.
Its not reliant on the app (when and if that ever comes about). I think the theory is that if someone tests positive the tell the T&T everyone they've been in close contact with and pass on their phone numbers. It only works if the positive testing person has the 3rd parties details and are prepared to pass them on.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Though if they say they have been to a workplace, school, religious meeting etc then the contact details can probably be traced through the organisation rather than relying on an individual having them.
