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Covid related agoraphobia

Although you have described it as a "phobia" the usual definition of which implies an irrational fear of something, your reaction to the risk of contracting covid is not, of itself, irrational.

indeed.

being afraid to go anywhere near any dog ever is probably an irrational phobia. being cautious around a dog who is showing signs of aggression is sensible caution.

there is a sensible path somewhere between the 'stay at home forever' and 'covid is over, everything is back to normal' positions. i'm not quite sure where that path is, and even less sure that our government does.

but now boss wants me attend an indoor event with 90 people

has anything been said about covid safety for this event? has employer got covid policies in place? (where i am now, official line is only occupy every other desk and not facing anyone else, so desks are occupied at maximum like

OXOXO
XOXOX

don't know if where you are is unionised, but raising legitimate health + safety concerns (of which covid risk is certainly legitimate) is perfectly reasonable.
 
has anything been said about covid safety for this event? has employer got covid policies in place? (where i am now, official line is only occupy every other desk and not facing anyone else, so desks are occupied at maximum like

OXOXO
XOXOX

don't know if where you are is unionised, but raising legitimate health + safety concerns (of which covid risk is certainly legitimate) is perfectly reasonable.
I was excused from having to attend quite graciously - but the mere upset of the fear really unsttled me for a few days. I've been offered time out/ days off when ever I've needed it. We are not being forced into attending the office, desks have to be booked with numbers limited and meetings are online. I think the employer is very covid safety aware. The conferance was in a really large venue (capacity well over 200) and negetive testing was required for attendance, distancing was expected and cleaning /disinfectants was planned - so I think all sensible precausions were being made.
 
indeed.

being afraid to go anywhere near any dog ever is probably an irrational phobia. being cautious around a dog who is showing signs of aggression is sensible caution.

there is a sensible path somewhere between the 'stay at home forever' and 'covid is over, everything is back to normal' positions. i'm not quite sure where that path is, and even less sure that our government does.
I'm having finding it difficult to feel 'normal' and finding any balance difficult.

Thanks Puddy_Tat
 
Ok I've been building things up and venturing outside more often. Last week I had to see various trades people indoors (with masks on) and even made it to sit inside pubs with people twice. Felt a bit nervous, but massively proud that I've done it!

However now I feel rotten, have come down with a cold like thing, feel exhausted, hot and cold, really heavy feeling on my chest. I haven't had a cold in over 18 months I've been so isolating/careful - this just a cold? I'd not needed to do any test before but I did a home test today (free one from the chemist) and it showed negative for covid.

I worry if I was able to catch a cold I could catch covid. Need I worry?
 
Ok I've been venturing outside more often. Last week I had to see various trades people indoors (with masks on) and even made it to sit inside pubs with people twice. Felt a bit nervous, but massively proud that I've done it!

However now I feel rotten, have come down with a cold like thing, feel exhausted, hot and cold, really heavy feeling on my chest. I haven't had a cold in over 18 months I've been so isolating/careful - this just a cold? I'd not needed to do any test before but I did a home test today (free one from the chemist) and it showed negative for covid.

Need I worry?

there are ordinary colds out there (and a few fairly rotten ones) - i had some sort of crud (probably not covid, although the negative covid test turned out to have been done at the dodgy laboratory) last month and have a slight sniffle now (but tested negative for covid at the weekend)

someone who understands this sort of thing better than i do may be along soon, but i think it's only to be expected that if you've not been out much for the last year or so, you're going to be more likely to catch colds and so on.

hope you're on the mend soon
 
Ok I've been building things up and venturing outside more often. Last week I had to see various trades people indoors (with masks on) and even made it to sit inside pubs with people twice. Felt a bit nervous, but massively proud that I've done it!

However now I feel rotten, have come down with a cold like thing, feel exhausted, hot and cold, really heavy feeling on my chest. I haven't had a cold in over 18 months I've been so isolating/careful - this just a cold? I'd not needed to do any test before but I did a home test today (free one from the chemist) and it showed negative for covid.

I worry if I was able to catch a cold I could catch covid. Need I worry?

Sorry you've got a cold (I have too).

You could catch covid.

But I guess you've got to think: i) how likely is it?; and, ii) whether your health and vaccination status is such that the consequences of getting it are likely to be severe. Then weigh that likelihood and severity against the negative consequences of trying to mitigate the risk by effectively withdrawing from 'normal' life (especially as it's likely covid is here to stay).

I get that makes it sound easy, but I find that framework helps to assess comparative risks.
 
Sorry you've got a cold (I have too).

You could catch covid.

But I guess you've got to think: i) how likely is it?; and, ii) whether your health and vaccination status is such that the consequences of getting it are likely to be severe. Then weigh that likelihood and severity against the negative consequences of trying to mitigate the risk by effectively withdrawing from 'normal' life (especially as it's likely covid is here to stay).

I get that makes it sound easy, but I find that framework helps to assess comparative risks.

As part of that weighing up I think its important to consider that when it comes to 'the virus is here to stay' and 'learning to live with covid', the rates of infection and hospitalisation seen in England for months in no way represent a sustainable status quo as far as I'm concerned. The authorities cannot live with these rates forever, and so we should expect the current situation not to become the new normal forever more. The only question is to what variables will change - will repeated vaccinates and new treatments further alter the hospitalisation picture, will the number of people who have now caught it lead to a lower level of infections in future, or will those things remain at stubbornly unliveable levels which forces another change to rules and behaviours? Or some mix of these and other factors.

With this in mind I think its perfectly rational to be concerned and still behaving differently at the moment. Things will change in future and then I will be more prepared to change my own behaviour and encourage others to do the same. Until then I woud describe most concerns as rational and proportionate. Because the levels of viral prevalence at the moment are completely ridiculous and there are many parallels between the government getting loads of people to carry on regardless and what their hideous plan to carry on was like at the start of the pandemic. It was deadly bullshit then and its deadly bullshit now, just with altered ratios of infection to hospitalisation and death.
 
As part of that weighing up I think its important to consider that when it comes to 'the virus is here to stay' and 'learning to live with covid', the rates of infection and hospitalisation seen in England for months in no way represent a sustainable status quo as far as I'm concerned. The authorities cannot live with these rates forever, and so we should expect the current situation not to become the new normal forever more. The only question is to what variables will change - will repeated vaccinates and new treatments further alter the hospitalisation picture, will the number of people who have now caught it lead to a lower level of infections in future, or will those things remain at stubbornly unliveable levels which forces another change to rules and behaviours? Or some mix of these and other factors.

With this in mind I think its perfectly rational to be concerned and still behaving differently at the moment. Things will change in future and then I will be more prepared to change my own behaviour and encourage others to do the same. Until then I woud describe most concerns as rational and proportionate. Because the levels of viral prevalence at the moment are completely ridiculous and there are many parallels between the government getting loads of people to carry on regardless and what their hideous plan to carry on was like at the start of the pandemic. It was deadly bullshit then and its deadly bullshit now, just with altered ratios of infection to hospitalisation and death.
Oh, yes, I agree it's rational. Not sure how far below the current rates we'll get in the near future, if only because of this government's ideological commitment to not taking a step backwards by bringing back some of the previous measures. I fear a lot of people might expertise some years of a significantly lower quality of life waiting for the risk to drop substantially.
 
Something will change within 6 months because the current situation isnt sustainable. So I'm not advising people to wait for very many years more. Only that my answer to 'if not now then when?' is certainly not right now, be driven by the data.

Patterns in data so far during the pandemic means that I generally advise people to make hay whilst the sun shines, take the opportunities to do some stuff and recharge the mental batteries a little when rates are relatively low, and take it seriously when rates are high.
 
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Maybe not directly but I expect elements of reality still seep through eventually. If number of cases had been low for months instead of high, wouldnt that provide some rock to cling to when fears are whipping around your mind?
 
Maybe not directly but I expect elements of reality still seep through eventually. If number of cases had been low for months instead of high, wouldnt that provide some rock to cling to when fears are whipping around your mind?
not sure - I'm not listening to news to avoid panic.I assume if there is something important in the news/data people will let me know which on the whole they do. Every now a then I might check nhs / bbc news online. Last time I checked lambeth had declining rates, no idea now though.

I see people look very relaxed around each other touch and hugging like the old 'normal' - which makes me feel a bit stupid to be so cautious while at the same time avoiding them like the plague I, which they may well be passing on even if they look well.
 
I'm certainly familiar with yoyoing of my own feelings between 'am I being a bit stupid?' and 'no, its others who are being a bit stupid!'.

There will be some fair variations between people as to how quickly and to what extent the old normal seems desirable and possible without too much stress. I might not find it so easy myself, but when the time comes I'll be wanting to share this journey with others and provide encouragement. The problem is that I dont think that time has arrived at the moment, so I'm going to have to be content to sit in a holding pattern of caution until something changes. It will probably either be the changing of the seasons or very different levels of infection that indicate to me that the time has come to push myself further. I'll be sure to state quite loudly here when I think that time has really arrived!

Bottom line for me is I'd rather feel a bit stupid for still being cautious than to blow all the effort by falling at the 'final hurdle'. There never will be complete 100% guarantees about safety just as there arent in the rest of lifes aspects, but that doesnt mean I am going back to normal at a time when the number of infections in this country is an absolute bloody disgrace.
 
elbows what does your 'holding pattern' of caution look like - are you going out? shops? buses/trains/tubes? nightclubs/parties? visiting people at home? what are you not doing and what precautions are you still taking?
 
As part of that weighing up I think its important to consider that when it comes to 'the virus is here to stay' and 'learning to live with covid', the rates of infection and hospitalisation seen in England for months in no way represent a sustainable status quo as far as I'm concerned. The authorities cannot live with these rates forever, and so we should expect the current situation not to become the new normal forever more. The only question is to what variables will change - will repeated vaccinates and new treatments further alter the hospitalisation picture, will the number of people who have now caught it lead to a lower level of infections in future, or will those things remain at stubbornly unliveable levels which forces another change to rules and behaviours? Or some mix of these and other factors.

With this in mind I think its perfectly rational to be concerned and still behaving differently at the moment. Things will change in future and then I will be more prepared to change my own behaviour and encourage others to do the same. Until then I woud describe most concerns as rational and proportionate. Because the levels of viral prevalence at the moment are completely ridiculous and there are many parallels between the government getting loads of people to carry on regardless and what their hideous plan to carry on was like at the start of the pandemic. It was deadly bullshit then and its deadly bullshit now, just with altered ratios of infection to hospitalisation and death.


This makes all the sense in the world to me.

I am still being super cautious. Pretty much cocooning.

Freaked out the other day because a delivery driver argued with me about being asked to leave a parcel on the step and back the fuck away !!!
I literally said "stand back" and he came forward.
So I shouted "I SAID MOVE BACK FROM ME NOW!!!"
He then whinged about not being able to put the fucking parcel on the step and how he would have to take a photo.

I pointed to the sign on the door stating "Leave all deliveries on the step and ring the bell..we are in."
He still went on about possibly getting into trouble blah blah.

At that stage I said "put my property on the step and leave".

Really pissed me off. What got to me aswell was that it became very much MAN TALKS DOWN TO SILLY WOMAN.

😡😡😡
 
Don't feel like you need to do anything different (from last year) just yet - I think there is a lot of peer pressure going on in terms of folks going without masks and being blasé about social distancing, but that doesn't mean you should or I should follow that pattern of behaviour.

I am seeing things that I find horrific in terms of crowds in pubs, people not socially distancing in supermarkets, no-one on the fucking bus is wearing a fucking mask any more - and I find it properly scary.

I don't think you're wrong to find it scary either - it seems like reasonable caution.

Was actually discussing this very issue with one of the paramedics who came round Monday night to attend to my OH and deliver them to hospital (severe asthma attack), and it seemed like we were in agreement that being cautious is not a bad thing right now, and a fear of being in a crowd is a reasonable reaction - infection rates and death rates are still high, this thing hasn't gone away even though government and in a lot of cases the general public are acting as though it has.

We agreed that for older folks like us the fear of being in places with a lot of people might actually be a lifelong thing that we have to try to cope with now, going forward. It is not irrational fear though, it is totally rational given the circumstances, and you are by no means the only person who feels like this.
 
elbows what does your 'holding pattern' of caution look like - are you going out? shops? buses/trains/tubes? nightclubs/parties? visiting people at home? what are you not doing and what precautions are you still taking?
I'm not doing any of those things, but thats because I'm in a position which is both a luxury and hell. And the timing of my eventual transition out of that will not be determined by me alone, but also on the attitude of key elderly relatives.
 
But against the risks of infection we do also have to balance the risks to our personal mental and physical health of staying indoors alone forever, as well as to our collective social networks and social support. It's not straightforward.

I personally have chosen to be fairly post-Covid-y because my mental health just crashed under the weight of isolation.

I think we are just beginning to see the physical and mental health effects of lockdown.
 
I didnt claim it was straightforward.

My mental health has suffered from seeing how many people decided to be post-Covid-y a little too soon. I am partially shielded against that because my expectations were low pre-pandemic and only improved once the magnitude of the pandemic and the fact millions of people would take it seriously was properly demonstrated, along with the huge government u-turn. I suppose I've always known since then that people were likely to slide back towards the old normal at a pace that wouldnt line up fully with my way of thinking. And because I have had the relatively luxury of isolating, during most later phases of the pandemic I've tried very hard not to judge other people doing what they needed to do to cope. But this particular phase of the pandemic is dragging on and its starting to get to me now, especially given which season we are heading towards. I better hope that the virus doesnt have too many huge pockets of potential left to result in any more explosive growth and fresh peaks, and that I too can move on before far too many more months have to pass.

All the same make no mistake, part of the reason I get depressed is because the government have relied on various sentiments in order to make their 2021 reopening agenda work. And there are a whole bunch of parallels between how many people have ended up thinking about things in that way these days, and how the government would have needed people to 'keep calm and carry on' in order to make their original 'herd immunity' plan A work at the start of the pandemic. Hospitalisation levels stopped that original plan near the start and necessitated a rethink, but if those levels had been within a range the government thought the system could cope with, we'd have been treated to all this carry on shit all throughout the pandemic, with similar excuses and attitudes of the multitude as to what we see now. Vaccines broadly reenabled their original calculations and plan, and now I have to try to cope with seeing all the dodgy shit play out across the multitude. All the hideous unsustainable failures at the start and people openly pointing and the ridiculousness of it all would have been replaced with endless justifications and people convincing themselves that carrying on as before was the only thing to do.

In other words if people have a hard time imagining how the government thought they could possibly get away with their original plan, just look at attitudes in more recent phases, along with press focus and framing. Why wouldnt the establishment have believed they stood some chance of pulling off the same thing with the same rhetoric and features from the start if the hospitalisation estimates were within a range deemed tolerable? I expect their default stance would be that they could pretty much take such things for granted, and it was a surprise to all concerned that the magnitude of the pandemic thwarted business and usual, herd management as usual, all the usual priorities from them and indeed everyone else.
 
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Wash your hands and sing happy death day, learning to live with shit priorities, learning to live with a health system on its knees, learning to live with many forms of sleaze.
 
I didnt claim it was straightforward.

My mental health has suffered from seeing how many people decided to be post-Covid-y a little too soon. I am partially shielded against that because my expectations were low pre-pandemic and only improved once the magnitude of the pandemic and the fact millions of people would take it seriously was properly demonstrated, along with the huge government u-turn. I suppose I've always known since then that people were likely to slide back towards the old normal at a pace that wouldnt line up fully with my way of thinking. And because I have had the relatively luxury of isolating, during most later phases of the pandemic I've tried very hard not to judge other people doing what they needed to do to cope. But this particular phase of the pandemic is dragging on and its starting to get to me now, especially given which season we are heading towards. I better hope that the virus doesnt have too many huge pockets of potential left to result in any more explosive growth and fresh peaks, and that I too can move on before far too many more months have to pass.

All the same make no mistake, part of the reason I get depressed is because the government have relied on various sentiments in order to make their 2021 reopening agenda work. And there are a whole bunch of parallels between how many people have ended up thinking about things in that way these days, and how the government would have needed people to 'keep calm and carry on' in order to make their original 'herd immunity' plan A work at the start of the pandemic. Hospitalisation levels stopped that original plan near the start and necessitated a rethink, but if those levels had been within a range the government thought the system could cope with, we'd have been treated to all this carry on shit all throughout the pandemic, with similar excuses and attitudes of the multitude as to what we see now. Vaccines broadly reenabled their original calculations and plan, and now I have to try to cope with seeing all the dodgy shit play out across the multitude. All the hideous unsustainable failures at the start and people openly pointing and the ridiculousness of it all would have been replaced with endless justifications and people convincing themselves that carrying on as before was the only thing to do.

In other words if people have a hard time imagining how the government thought they could possibly get away with their original plan, just look at attitudes in more recent phases, along with press focus and framing. Why wouldnt the establishment have believed they stood some chance of pulling off the same thing with the same rhetoric and features from the start if the hospitalisation estimates were within a range deemed tolerable? I expect their default stance would be that they could pretty much take such things for granted, and it was a surprise to all concerned that the magnitude of the pandemic thwarted business and usual, herd management as usual, all the usual priorities from them and indeed everyone else.
I simply cant listen to what the govt is up to or advises. It either makes me furious or makes me anxious. I understand people want to act like its all over - I simply want to avoid those people.
 
Just had my 5th CBT session (only one more to go) and while the therapist wanted me to look at it as a temp set back, I feel its like I've slid right back down the snake back to square 1. She talked about anxiety cycle and being afraid of the anxiety - but I'm afraid, realistically afraid of the risk of catching covid. There was obviously a risk of contracting a viral infection in all my going shops /outings/ seeing people last week. I feel lucky I got away with only catching a cold.

I was already wearing mask and keeping at least arms length away SO now my risk assessment says - don't see people, don't go into shops, don't see people face to face indoors and don't go for a drink inside a pub. Now its worse than before in that I have to explain to people who saw me last week that NO I cant do it again.
 
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