Contact Tracing: Will You Self Isolate? (and related discussion)

[William of Walworth]

Going from the thread so far ....

If the mostly-smart people on Urban are having all sorts of issues wondering how this T & T malarkey will work in practice, then fuck knows how everyone phoned-up will grasp it properly, or how the on-phone trackers will apply it consistently.

Would rather proactively go and get tested myself.
festivaldeb has said the same.
But we're a Civil Servant and a local government employee respectively.
With an actual test centre ten minutes walk from where we live (in our jobs, we're allowed to get tested there, if we have symptoms).
So therefore, we're ultra-lucky
But neither of us have any trace of any symptoms, for now -- we've been consistently behaving responsibly (or at least intelligently ) since March, as far as we can.
Plus we live in West Wales, not London.

With all the above, I'm not sure that I'm actually qualified to answer the thread question really!

 

[Spanner]

My position: No I won’t self isolate if told by the “tracing team”

My reason: I was taught how viruses grow, spread, and mutate years ago by my mother. She was one of a team of very clever bastards who eradicated smallpox globally in the ‘70s.

Government players: Matt Hancock is not an actual doctor. So who cares what he says? Whitty is a doctor but he looks really ill all the time, or should I say he looks under pressure to tow the party line, so he’s a no-no too. The rest are just a joke.

My conclusion: if my mum tells me I need to self isolate, then I’m disappearing underground quick snap. Until then...be as normal as is socially acceptable.

 

[existentialist]

My position: No I won’t self isolate if told by the “tracing team”

My reason: I was taught how viruses grow, spread, and mutate years ago by my mother. She was one of a team of very clever bastards who eradicated smallpox globally in the ‘70s.

Government players: Matt Hancock is not an actual doctor. So who cares what he says? Whitty is a doctor but he looks really ill all the time, or should I say he looks under pressure to tow the party line, so he’s a no-no too. The rest are just a joke.

My conclusion: if my mum tells me I need to self isolate, then I’m disappearing underground quick snap. Until then...be as normal as is socially acceptable.

 

[Spanner]

Crikey. Did I give a bad answer?

 

[muscovyduck]

I really really want to say that I will self isolate. But the economy is set up so I won't be able to. No one else to care for the person I care for in my absence and growing pressure from work colleagues/clients etc that we somehow try to make up for lost time.

 

[Spymaster]

Crikey. Did I give a bad answer?

“I will if my mum tells me to”

 

[bellaozzydog]

I’m sandwiched between two cultures/countries who both use the mobile for social control and administration of their populations

one uses an individually linked phone number Seemingly for everything and you quote it/show it/ register itfrom everything from visa stuff to engaging in thehealth system

the other country according to Colleagues uses electronic iD for almost everything, accommodation tracking alsorts

superficially it seems to really grease the rails for everyday bullshit admin stuff........but the data Gathering, control aspects of it and potential nefarious uses, Outweigh its benefits

don’t give this shit away. It’s all sold as beneficial or necessary but when the government is in your phone it’s a slippery fucking slope

 

[bellaozzydog]

Double post I think they are watching me

 

[bellaozzydog]

Triple post. I think they really are watching me

 

[Spymaster]

I’m sandwiched between two cultures/countries who both use the mobile for social control and administration of their populations

one uses an individually linked phone number Seemingly for everything and you quote it/show it/ register itfrom everything from visa stuff to engaging in thehealth system

the other country according to Colleagues uses electronic iD for almost everything, accommodation tracking alsorts

superficially it seems to really grease the rails for everyday bullshit admin stuff........but the data Gathering, control aspects of it and potential nefarious uses, Outweigh its benefits

don’t give this shit away. It’s all sold as beneficial or necessary but when the government is in your phone it’s a slippery fucking slope

Interesting but not relevant to the thread.

Would you self-isolate if someone phoned you and told you to?

 

[bellaozzydog]

Interesting but not relevant to the thread.

Would you self-isolate if someone phoned you and told you to?

just a general rant.

Here we get daily emergency alarms on the phones, audible SMS messages all simultaneously it’s creepy

Some random phoning me to tell me to do something is about as invasive as it gets for me. I barely answer my phone to Non ID numbers at the best of times

so in answer to the question, no I fucking wouldn’t

In a similar vein when I had mental health dramas last year I was pimped on to a telephone service with some anonymous random “psychologist” who turned out to be some one reading a script after a bit of training, lowest bidder, competitive tender shit rather than investing in the current system (more doctors and nurses)

I want solid, well managed and well executed solutions to problems not fucking easiest cheapest “my mates company developed an app” beta testing for something so serious



sometimes faith in a processs or system is as/more important as how efficient it is.

this shower of shit nozzles have not produced any evidence that they have the slightest idea on anything they are doing. The technology will save us all hammer means the government is treating every problem like a digital nail (it’s cheap, flash and may work while remunerating their mates generously)

let’s start with some basics first and get clever apps in when they are specific and work rather than a gimmick with nefarious side consequences (medical data management)

I’d be happier with a contact trace letter like wot the STD clinic historically used

So yep an angry no

 

[LDC]

I’d be happier with a contact trace letter like wot the STD clinic historically used

So yep an angry no

This is very similar to the STI system though (I was going to post an article yesterday making that comparison), you're again mistaking the app for the whole thing. And can you imagine the moaning about it being slow and out of date if it was done by letters?!

At the moment you'd get a clinician phoning you (having been given your contact by someone that has tested positive for CV) and going through the whole process which takes about 45-60 minutes, and then them making a risk assessment and judgement on whether you need to isolate, and giving you advice etc.

I really don't get the anger with the government translating into not isolating to protect other people from the virus?

"Fuck Matt Hancock, I'll ignore medical advice and possibly spread a deadly virus just to spite him?"

 

[LDC]

People seem to want it both ways. Hate the app, then moan about being phoned by a person.

After plenty of going on about how testing and contact tracing is the way forward.

What do you lot refusing to isolate suggest we do then?

Permanent complete lockdown forever? Let it spread through the population with no checks and fuck the consequences? Because there aren't many other options.

 

[Thora]

People seem to want it both ways. Hate the app, then moan about being called by a person.

After plenty of going on that testing and contact tracing is the way forward.

What do you lot refusing to isolate suggest we do then?

Permanent complete lockdown forever? Let it spread through the population with no checks and fuck the consequences? Because there aren't many other options.

As muscovyduck says though, we need financial/social support in place to allow people to isolate for 14 days. For many people it just won't be possible.

 

[LDC]

As muscovyduck says though, we need financial/social support in place to allow people to isolate for 14 days. For many people it just won't be possible.

Yes, but that's a different issue and I totally get that. If you can't financially due to job insecurity that's shit and needs to be dealt with by the State (or us fighting for it). But that's not what lots of people on here are giving as reasons.

 

[existentialist]

Yes, but that's a different issue and I totally get that. If you can't financially due to job insecurity that's shit and needs to be dealt with by the State (or us fighting for it). But that's not what lots of people on here are giving as reasons.

You're right, but I think that the reasons people are giving are largely a function of the huge distrust people have towards government policy now, and justifiably so, even if it doesn't make common sense.

Johnston has made such a monumental Horlicks of this that the best thing he could probably do would be to hand the whole Covid management task to someone both independent and competent. Pigs might fly.

 

[LDC]

You're right, but I think that the reasons people are giving are largely a function of the huge distrust people have towards government policy now, and justifiably so, even if it doesn't make common sense.

Johnston has made such a monumental Horlicks of this that the best thing he could probably do would be to hand the whole Covid management task to someone both independent and competent. Pigs might fly.

It's depressing.

 

[existentialist]

It's depressing.

Yes, it is. At every level.

Mind you, a second wave is going to concentrate a lot of minds.

 

[Poot]

I think people are generally desperate to do their bit where possible. But this government are making it unbelievably difficult. As existentialist says.

 

[Brainaddict]

I assumed test and trace would mean also testing those who have been in contact with a person. What's the reason for not doing this? Lack of capacity? If so, why hasn't the capacity to do it been built?

 

[Thora]

I assumed test and trace would mean also testing those who have been in contact with a person. What's the reason for not doing this? Lack of capacity? If so, why hasn't the capacity to do it been built?

I think the tests only work while you have symptoms

 

[Mogden]

I'm continuing to isolate as much as possible. I've been out 5 or 6 times since just after lockdown started and that was for shopping. Regardless of getting a call I will isolate as I see fit and as my job allows because I have no other alternative.

The contact tracing is still not going to do anything about this.

Teenagers ignore social distancing rules and jump into Darley Abbey weir

The images have caused outrage

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

They will use the Cummings defence or just say it doesn't apply to them because they're young. How are they planning to leave the kids to decide if they isolate or not given it isn't compulsory?

 

[Brainaddict]

I think the tests only work while you have symptoms

Don't think that's the case: Asymptomatic spread makes testing key for COVID-19 fight - Futurity

 

[andysays]

My position: No I won’t self isolate if told by the “tracing team”

My reason: I was taught how viruses grow, spread, and mutate years ago by my mother. She was one of a team of very clever bastards who eradicated smallpox globally in the ‘70s.

Government players: Matt Hancock is not an actual doctor. So who cares what he says? Whitty is a doctor but he looks really ill all the time, or should I say he looks under pressure to tow the party line, so he’s a no-no too. The rest are just a joke.

My conclusion: if my mum tells me I need to self isolate, then I’m disappearing underground quick snap. Until then...be as normal as is socially acceptable.

Glad to see your Mum apparently told you to log off and go to bed after posting this nonsense

 

[Thora]

Don't think that's the case: Asymptomatic spread makes testing key for COVID-19 fight - Futurity

Who knows then. I'm sure I read our tests are only about 70% accurate anyway.

 

[andysays]

Don't think that's the case: Asymptomatic spread makes testing key for COVID-19 fight - Futurity

At least until recently, tests have only been available to those displaying symptoms, presumably because without some form of tracing, there was no way of knowing who might be positive and therefore worth testing unless they displayed symptoms.

With this new tracing system it is possible to know who might be positive through contact with someone else who's tested positive, even if not (yet) displaying symptoms themselves.

 

[xenon]

I think people are generally desperate to do their bit where possible. But this government are making it unbelievably difficult. As existentialist says.

What happened to all the anarchists around here. I thought working for your community, autonomous positive action was the thing. Now it's all but but the government have done xyz… I'm being a bit tongue in cheak but really. Fuck the government. We're all pissed of with the whole shitshow. I just see it as the right thing to do if you get the call.

Not aimed at you Poot, just adding. Obviously for people that would be risking losing their jobs, homes etc I get that. But expecting the government to be your moral guide and influence in this is... Non optimum.

 

[Brainaddict]

At least until recently, tests have only been available to those displaying symptoms, presumably because without some form of tracing, there was no way of knowing who might be positive and therefore worth testing unless they displayed symptoms.

With this new tracing system it is possible to know who might be positive through contact with someone else who's tested positive, even if not (yet) displaying symptoms themselves.

Right. So why is the call from the government contact tracers going to tell you to self-isolate rather than tell you you need to be tested (and to self-isolate until then). That would surely get a much higher rate of cooperation as well as being the logical thing to do.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

At least until recently, tests have only been available to those displaying symptoms, presumably because without some form of tracing, there was no way of knowing who might be positive and therefore worth testing unless they displayed symptoms.

With this new tracing system it is possible to know who might be positive through contact with someone else who's tested positive, even if not (yet) displaying symptoms themselves.

it's also a way of finding asymptomatic cases, which still may well be the majority of cases. And given that asymptomatic cases test positive, that seems reason enough to offer a test to all those contacted. Surely one of the system's biggest shortcomings thus far wrt transmission has been its inability to identify asymptomatic carriers.

 

[Spymaster]

Right. So why is the call from the government contact tracers going to tell you to self-isolate rather than tell you you need to be tested (and to self-isolate until then). That would surely get a much higher rate of cooperation as well as being the logical thing to do.

This was my original point. Apparently the test won't always tell you if you're infected though. That said we need to weigh up the probability and potential damage caused by a false negative versus the potential damage caused by making loads of uninfected people isolate.