butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So did HITLER
Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier
- Thread starter Badger Kitten
- Start date
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Hitler had no musical talent at all. He did do amateurish watercolours though. Churchill was a better painter however.
I'm not agreeing with him, let's make that quite clear.
What I what I know about Nick K is that he is no anti-semite. He is a conspiracy theorist.
I am placed in the awkward position of having to comment on someone that I know (although I knew nothing of his interest in WWII). Now if I didn't know him, and quite liked the fellow there'd be nothing making me defend him against this accusation, and for all I would know it could be true. However, I'd be a pretty crap bloke if I didn't speak up for people I know when they need it. And having spent some time with Nick K I've never seen the slightest hint of anti-semitism from him and that charge just doesn't fit with the person I know.
What I 'don't have a problem with' is someone genuinely stating what they believe, however wrong that may be. What I very much DO have a problem with is people wanting laws to suppress challenging viewpoints, again, however wrong. I need hardly point out that that is the way that fascist regimes gain hold of a compliant populace. The way to combat wrong arguments is not by outlawing them. It is with openness. I would like to think that that applies to WWII as much as anywhere else, and that the information there will speak for itself.
Having said that, I'm very disappointed that he's gone off on this, because I don't think it does anyone any favours. Certainly not the 9/11 Truth Movement. It's a highly emotional, loaded topic, and what to gain?
**********
... you see, this is the kind of hysteria I am talking about. A quick search of wikipedia, which BK didn't even bother to do before making her emphatic pronouncements:
source
Badger Kitten
oof
Oh, you know what Jazz?
If it had only been 4.8 million people dead, choked, raped murdered, sick to death, that would have been fine?
To deny?
If it had only been 4.8 million people dead, choked, raped murdered, sick to death, that would have been fine?
To deny?
Badger Kitten
oof
fuck off.
And yes, you can cite that as a fucking genuine source
And yes, you can cite that as a fucking genuine source
Exactly. All what is done is reporting what he brought it in the public domain himself.
salaam.
Badger Kitten
oof
The expression of fuck off, not the fucking number is the source.
Bleeds into one.
Bleeds into one.
One people, one number, one event, denied. If you are NK.
Bleeds into one.
Bleeds into one.
One people, one number, one event, denied. If you are NK.
Calm down!
You stated it was a 'fact' that 6 million Jews died. Yet there is no fact of the sort. What we have are estimates.
You are absolutely not going down the correct moral path by making stuff up like that, because it seems expedient. If you want to be on the side of truth, don't fabricate.
Y_I_Otter
Dangerous Terroirist
Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory that claims Jews invented the "Holohoax" to elicit public sympathy for their own nefarious ends. In what way is that not antisemitic?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
If you're reduced to picking on points like this you really are beyond help.
I knew a man (he died some time ago), a friend of my mother's family, who as political prisoner and because he was fluent in German was put to work in the camp's administration. Hence had to put down arrivals, deaths, living.
This individual abusing his academic title to saw confusion and arguing against what can't be denied should better take a first year's history course.
salaam.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Are you still defending this bloke then jazzz? After (presumably) reading what he has to say? On what grounds? Free spech? Fine, but that means a commitment from you that he is a negationist, that he is a holocaust denier. Do we have that? Is that your position, that he is a holocaust denier but that denial is his right? Let's be clear here.
He isn't questioning that Jews died in vast numbers, in horrible circumstances.
He is doing precisely that.
Nick is saying the figure is precisely ZERO. Everyone else understands why there can never be a precise figure but the evidence all points to around 5.5 - 6 million Jews were murdered.
The holocaust is the most studied and documented event in history. There are thousands of witnesses, from the designers of the camps, the schedulers of the one-way transportation, to those who rounded Jews up, those who performed the selections, those who put them in the chambers, those who put in the gas and those who disposed of the bodies.
The documentary evidence is overwhelming with literally millions of documents that show every stage of the holocaust. There are no gaps.
For Nick's research to be valid then tens of thousands of people, from all nationalities across Europe and beyond must have prearranged to lie and not only lie, but to lie in detail, to tell the same lie from The Baltic to the Mediterranean.
For Nick's research to be valid millions of documents would have needed to be forged from 1933 to 1945, often in the battle theatre. Whole transport systems must have been put in place for no reason, Whole battalions formed to do nothing and so on and on and on.
For Nick's research to be valid many Nazis must have been persuaded to concoct the holocaust at the time it was being committed to the end of the war and beyond.
That's just a couple of the basics, but the weight of evidence, the time period and the geographic spread of the holocaust is so enormous that, when faced with someone who denies it all, one must ask 'Is he mad or bad?'
Given the weight of the evidence, one can only surmise that there must be some ulterior motive or cause for people to dogmatically deny the holocaust. It may be anti-semitism, hatred of Israel or that denial and conspiracy fulfills some inner psychological need.
You are a simpler case, you're clearly an idiot.
He is doing precisely that.
Nick is saying the figure is precisely ZERO. Everyone else understands why there can never be a precise figure but the evidence all points to around 5.5 - 6 million Jews were murdered.
The holocaust is the most studied and documented event in history. There are thousands of witnesses, from the designers of the camps, the schedulers of the one-way transportation, to those who rounded Jews up, those who performed the selections, those who put them in the chambers, those who put in the gas and those who disposed of the bodies.
The documentary evidence is overwhelming with literally millions of documents that show every stage of the holocaust. There are no gaps.
For Nick's research to be valid then tens of thousands of people, from all nationalities across Europe and beyond must have prearranged to lie and not only lie, but to lie in detail, to tell the same lie from The Baltic to the Mediterranean.
For Nick's research to be valid millions of documents would have needed to be forged from 1933 to 1945, often in the battle theatre. Whole transport systems must have been put in place for no reason, Whole battalions formed to do nothing and so on and on and on.
For Nick's research to be valid many Nazis must have been persuaded to concoct the holocaust at the time it was being committed to the end of the war and beyond.
That's just a couple of the basics, but the weight of evidence, the time period and the geographic spread of the holocaust is so enormous that, when faced with someone who denies it all, one must ask 'Is he mad or bad?'
Given the weight of the evidence, one can only surmise that there must be some ulterior motive or cause for people to dogmatically deny the holocaust. It may be anti-semitism, hatred of Israel or that denial and conspiracy fulfills some inner psychological need.
You are a simpler case, you're clearly an idiot.
Should force all deniers to walk around Bergen-Belsen and see the mass graves with the signs saying how many are buried in each, many, many thousands. In the museum the photos and newsreels of the time tell the story easily. No survivor of Belsen had been there longer than 8 months, most 3-4 months.
I've also been to Oradeur-sur-Glane, another place that spooked the hell out of me.
I've also been to Oradeur-sur-Glane, another place that spooked the hell out of me.
Is it anti-American for me to suggest that 9/11 was an inside job? Let's note that many Americans think just that.
Of course, I am not saying that because I think 9/11 was an inside job I am in any way a holocaust revisionist. I am just pointing out that accusing an elite is not the same as accusing the people.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Jazzz - Do you accept that Nicholas Kollerstrom is a holcaust denier?
Yes/No
Yes/No
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Three possible answers jazzz:
a) he's not a holocuast denier
b) he is, it's his right
c) he is right to deny the holocaust
Time to pick one i think.
a) he's not a holocuast denier
b) he is, it's his right
c) he is right to deny the holocaust
Time to pick one i think.
It's funny how we have 'facts' from Badger Kitten that are not facts, and accusations of 'idiocy' from you when you haven't even read the comments that you are reciting back to me.
Nick has not said the figure is 'precisely ZERO' - you just assumed that. He said the total mortality of Jews during WWII is one and a quarter million of which four hundred and fifty thousand died in the labour camps. Now while that certainly is low compared to the accepted sources, it is still a vast amount of human suffering.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You lept over my question jazz whilst replying to the one before and the one after. Have a go at it now old chap.
(Your own use of facts on that post has been blown away already)
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
It's useful idiots like you who help gain fascists power Jazzz. Idiots like you who help spread their lies and distortions.
Oh fuck off! I am not 'doubting the holocaust'. I am doubting 'facts' that are not facts.
Badger Kitten
oof
Yeah, don' t fabricate
Tell your lying friend.
Tell yourself.
Do you, Jazzz, jump which way? Time for answers.
BK: The holocaust happened.
NK: The holocaust didn't.
Your call.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Oh fuck off! I am not 'doubting the holocaust'. I am doubting 'facts' that are not facts.
You're colluding with fascists.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oh fuck off! I am not 'doubting the holocaust'. I am doubting 'facts' that are not facts.
One more. Any chance of an answer. I even wrote it out in handy form so no one can get confused.
Regarding your friend NK's views:
a) he's not a holocuast denier
b) he is, it's his right
c) he is right to deny the holocaust
Time to pick one i think.
Oh right, so when I take a few moments to construct a reply, I'm 'leaping over' your post that hits in the interim? I'm supposed to reply to you before posts before yours?
quarsan, I see you are in Belgium.
Did you see that documentary on Canvas "Le destin des Nazis" about the research of Simon Wiesenthal and Beate and Serge Klarsfeld? Among all the sickening fragments showing torture and murder and the testimony of a prisoner who recalled how by lack of enough Zyclon B children were thrown in the ovens alive, there was a fragment that haunts me, showing Mengele torturing a naked child.
I bet the deniers would claim that was also tricked, showing Mengele with a doll equipped with a technology more advanced than is possible even today, making it acting and screaming like real, living tortured child.
salaam.
Did you see that documentary on Canvas "Le destin des Nazis" about the research of Simon Wiesenthal and Beate and Serge Klarsfeld? Among all the sickening fragments showing torture and murder and the testimony of a prisoner who recalled how by lack of enough Zyclon B children were thrown in the ovens alive, there was a fragment that haunts me, showing Mengele torturing a naked child.
I bet the deniers would claim that was also tricked, showing Mengele with a doll equipped with a technology more advanced than is possible even today, making it acting and screaming like real, living tortured child.
salaam.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Oh right, so when I take a few moments to construct a reply, I'm 'leaping over' your post that hits in the interim? I'm supposed to reply to you before posts before yours?
How long does it take you to type "a", "b" or "c"?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well you're busy replying to all manner of posts after mine. But if the answer is forthccoming then fine. Let's have it.Oh right, so when I take a few moments to construct a reply, I'm 'leaping over' your post that hits in the interim? I'm supposed to reply to you before posts before yours?
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