Conspiraloon 9/11- 7/7 Truther outed as Holocaust denier

[cesare]

I think froggie's approach was kinda pragmatic tbh

 

[Aldebaran]

They refer to Islam do they not? That is citing it.

No, they don't. They refer to what they want to make of what they somehow came to think might be somewhere to be found in Islam.
There are no such things to be found in Islam = they are not "citing Islam".
Inventions of the deluded mind are nothing else but that.

salaam.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It is a fact - again - that they don't, anywhere in what is quoted.
Where on earth do you see a citation of Islam in the things you quoted?
There is none.
And none in the last list BK quoted.
Nothing

Yes there bloody is, for fucks sake.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

No, they don't. They refer to what they want to make of what they somehow came to think might be somewhere to be found in Islam.
There are no such things to be found in Islam = they are not "citing Islam".
Inventions of the deluded mind are nothing else but that.

salaam.

So they don't refer to Islam?!?

You can cite a quote "lay on Mc Duff" (Shakespear: MacBeth) or you can cite a play "I really liked the Scottish play myself" both are citing something. They clearly cite Islam as they do refer to it both explicitly and implicitly.

That it might be an unfair / unjustified citation is a different issue.

There is a lot of confusion here, it's root cause is your misunderstanding of what the word means.

 

[Badger Kitten]

It is a fact - again - that they don't, anywhere in what is quoted.
Where on earth do you see a citation of Islam in the things you quoted?
There is none.
And none in the last list BK quoted.
Nothing.

salaam.

Take it up with them, not me, that they didn't cite surah and hadith and the Qur'an's specific texts and verses! That is a joke.

It is obvious that they are doing what they do in the name of Islam; to ''cite'' something in this context means to use it as justification. Perhaps this is a language issue as English is not your first language: citing sources in academia means to quote specific sources and perhaps this narrow technical definition is what you thought I meant. But in conversational English, like on this board, ''citing'' has a broader meaning. The meaning I used.

I hope that this is about a misunderstood language point, not you trying to misrepresent me on purpose.

We say '' he left early, citing as his reason the fact that he had to go to the dentist.

It's a different use of the word.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes there bloody is, for fucks sake.

No there isn't.

salaam.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

No there isn't.

I suggest you buy, then read, a dictionary.

 

[Badger Kitten]

Aldebaran. Please read my last post. Where I explain to you that I think you have misunderstood the word cited and how we use it in conversational English.

It is not the same as academic citation. See examples.



He left early, citing as his reason that he had to go to the dentist.

They made martyrdom videos, citing Islam and the suffering of the Ummah as their justification for attacking the Kaffar

 

[Aldebaran]

Take it up with them, not me, that they didn't cite surah and hadith and the Qur'an's specific texts and verses! That is a joke.

The fact is that they would not be able to underscore any of their criminal rubbish with Quranic texts.

It is obvious that they are doing what they do in the name of Islam;

Correction: All they do is making such a claim which is in fact only speaking for themselves, and which has no credibility to anyone even remotely informed on Islam.

to ''cite'' something in this context means to use it as justification.

Not to me.

Perhaps this is a language issue as English is not your first language: citing sources in academia means to quote specific sources and perhaps this narrow technical definition is what you thought I meant.

Yes.

But in conversational English, like on this board, ''citing'' has a broader meaning. The meaning I used.

OK then. Discussion closed, I suppose. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
Thank you for the lesson in colloquial English.

salaam.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I suggest you buy, then read, a dictionary.

Meh, online is good enough if it's used.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'd give up BK, I get the impression he's being willfully ignorant as a strange way of defending a percived attack on Islam.

 

[cesare]

Main Entry:
cite
Pronunciation:
\ˈsīt\
Function:
transitive verb
Inflected Form(s):
cit·ed; cit·ing
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French citer to cite, summon, from Latin citare to put in motion, rouse, summon, from frequentative of ciēre to stir, move — more at -kinesis
Date:
15th century

1: to call upon officially or authoritatively to appear (as before a court)
2: to quote by way of example, authority, or proof <cites several noteworthy authors>
3 a: to refer to; especially : to mention formally in commendation or praise b: to name in a citation
4: to bring forward or call to another's attention especially as an example, proof, or precedent <cited the weather as a reason for canceling the picnic>

synonyms see summon

BK, I take it that 3 a: was the meaning you were using in this sense?

 

[Badger Kitten]

OK then. Discussion closed, I suppose. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
Thank you for the lesson in colloquial English.

salaam.

Good, glad we got there in the end.

 

[Aldebaran]

Good, glad we got there in the end.

Well, I learn something new about the lanugage almost every day I read U75.
That is why it is somewhat addictive.

salaam.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

OK then. Discussion closed, I suppose. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
Thank you for the lesson in colloquial English.

This is not colloquial English, colloquial English is informal or casual and tends to mean spoken. This is not the case, it is in fact a very formal form of language and is used in legal functions where colloquial English is almost explicitly forbidden as it is too easily misunderstood.

Glad to help.

 

[cesare]

Ooops, shoulda done that earlier

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Ooops, shoulda done that earlier

I did

 

[cesare]

I did

Ah, but did you do it like a proper 'I'm from a dictionary' stylee - eh? eh?

 

[Aldebaran]

This is not colloquial English, colloquial English is informal or casual and tends to mean spoken. This is not the case, it is in fact a very formal form of language and is used in legal functions where colloquial English is almost explicitly forbidden as it is too easily misunderstood.

That meaning of the word in legal context? Would be very odd for me to read.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Ooops, shoulda done that earlier

This is nothing to what happened to me at US boards where I had absolutely no clue about writing this language, jumping in to see what it would give, while the US was in full glorification of Iraq invasion and "let's nuke the ME"


I was virtually killed from the first second. No surprise I was the only Muslim posting there, let alone the only Middle Eastern/Arab. It was a bit adventurous.

salaam.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

That meaning of the word in legal context? Would be very odd for me to read.

salaam.

It's one of them yes. It's a much more formal way of saying "refer" in this context, it's main use is to make someone sound more intelligent / authoritative.

In academia your references should cover author, book and page number, but you're still citing something if you just put the book in, you're just doing a crap job of it.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's one of them yes. It's a much more formal way of saying "refer" in this context, it's main use is to make someone sound more intelligent / authoritative.

"refer" would be for me correct wording in legal context. To use "cite" instead of "refer" would work very confusing.

In academia your references should cover author, book and page number, but you're still citing something if you just put the book in, you're just doing a crap job of it.

You simply can't "just put the book in" in any academic work (let alone in a thesis, good for a big zero score) and citing is not the same as referring.

salaam.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

That's just it, it is

 

[Aldebaran]

That's just it, it is

Maybe where you live. Not where I am

salaam.

 

[cesare]

This is nothing to what happened to me at US boards where I had absolutely no clue about writing this language, jumping in to see what it would give, while the US was in full glorification of Iraq invasion and "let's nuke the ME"


I was virtually killed from the first second. No surprise I was the only Muslim posting there, let alone the only Middle Eastern/Arab. It was a bit adventurous.

salaam.

I can imagine that!

The other thing is, the more one appears and feels confident at being reasonably fluent in a language, sometimes the more likely it is that real annoyance/impatience can occur. One party thinks they're absolutely sure about the meaning, and the other party thinks that they're misunderstanding the explanation offered on purpose

It is useful to know why you get so annoyed on principle about why we term them 'Islamist/Islamicist terrorists' though.

 

[cesare]

Maybe where you live. Not where I am

salaam.

Well you're here at the moment

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Maybe where you live. Not where I am

salaam.

Nope, if you're using English then it's the same there. If you're just thinking of the nearest translation into your first language then that's a different matter.

 

[Wilf]

No. You insist they are "quoting Islam". Where? Why do you take the things you quoted about their sayings as "Islam"?

So? Because they say it, it is? Where on earth do you get this?

Same question.

And again.
Lunatics. (again, I said that already)

They can tell about themselves whatever they like. You are the one in denial about the simple fact that anyone claiming anything about no matter what does not imply they are correct, let alone speaking for anyone or anything else but themselves.

Do yo always think that someone disagreeing with you does that out of "disrespect".
You are on the wrong track (and arguing the wrong argument).
That's all.

salaam.

But all this is just about the point we reached on the Jehovah's Witnesses thread. You state that your humane and modest view of Islam is the true one, they, having led different lives end up with a different one and different sets of justifications. There isn't any way of proving, of arbitrating between belief systems - thats all they are beliefs, beliefs of people in different circumstances and with different motivations. There is no external point of reference. And that applies to all belief systems, not just Islam. Their version might be twisted and murderous, but its just another take on a non-existent god.

but then i'm derailing the thread..

 

[Badger Kitten]

Oh, don't worry, it's already gone off-road, taken a cross country hike and has been reported missing to the coastguard

 

[Wilf]

<gets tug and brings it back into the main shipping lane>

Be interesting to keep an eye on the relevant ucl webpage over the next few weeks. Wonder if a certain name will quietly disappear? They must be getting a bit edgy seeing all this being aired (aired somewhere, not suggesting they've got their eyes glued to urban ). At the same time they know that any atttempts to get rid of this loon will result in tribunals and claims of martyrdom.