Chavez tells Blair to "Go right to hell"

[nino_savatte]

He's not allowed to, he's a US citizen.

Really? Many US citizens travel to Cuba but they have to got there via a convoluted route.

Wrong again, me auld fruit.

 

[phildwyer]

Really? Many US citizens travel to Cuba but they have to got there via a convoluted route.

Wrong again, me auld fruit.

Och, Nino. It is against the law for US citizens to travel to Cuba and, after decades of abeyance, that law is now being enforced. Try entering the US from Canada with a new suntan.

 

[nino_savatte]

Och, Nino. It is against the law for US citizens to travel to Cuba and, after decades of abeyance, that law is now being enforced. Try entering the US from Canada with a new suntan.

Read what slaar said...I'm not the only one who knows this and I have actually met and spoke to Americans who have been to Cuba recently. Have you?

You can travel via Mexico or any other Central American country.

 

[JoePolitix]

The neo-con lickspittles that apologise for the imperialist blockade imposed on Cuba should be aware of the adverse effects it is having on the health and well being of Cuban citizens.

Contrary to the assertions that such sufferings are primarily rooted in the internal failings of the Cuban healthcare system, long term studies by the American Association for World Health and the American Public Health Association have shown this to be false. The AAWH note that “the U.S. embargo of Cuba has dramatically harmed the health and nutrition of large numbers of ordinary Cuban citizen” and “the U.S. embargo of food and the de facto embargo on medical supplies has wreaked havoc with the island's model primary health care system”.

The report points out that government health policy has managed to evade disaster “A humanitarian catastrophe has been averted only because the Cuban government which has maintained a high level of budgetary support for a health care to all of its citizen” and “Cuba still has an infant mortality rate half that of the city of Washington, D.C”
See a summary of the reports

http://homepage.eircom.net/~csg/aawh2.htm

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~ksinghz/cubamed/FoodMedicine.htm

It’s truly sick to blame Cuba for health care failings in this circumstance. Rather like blaming a concentration camp intern for becoming malnourished.

 

[Ing_soc]

And I'll skip the AI propaganda, thanks.
QUOTE]
of course you will. why would you bother listening to a bunch of people who's sole concern is the protection of human rights all over the world? why bother listening to them, when they will tell you things that you don't like, because they disprove your ridiculous neo-con govt-propaganda inspired assertions?
in fact, why bother listening to anyone who disagrees with your arrogant and self-centred world view? so you don't, you carry on spouting more and more hypocrisy and when this is pointed out to you, accuse others of being 'children' or 'ignorant lefties' because you have no genuine response.

bear in mind, i for one don't hate all americans. just the ones like you, who talk the highest levels of freedom and positive values, and then act in the complete opposite manner. and then when presented with the truth, choose to ignore it, as it is too uncomfortable, thereby continuing your deluded yet dangerous existence.

why do we bother talking to him? nothing we say will have the blindest bit of impact? i will no longer bother, as if i spent enough time worrying about people like you, it would make me physically ill.

 

[phildwyer]

Read what slaar said...I'm not the only one who knows this and I have actually met and spoke to Americans who have been to Cuba recently. Have you?

You can travel via Mexico or any other Central American country.

Yes, and you will be breaking the law. If you are caught by US customs with anything purchased in Cuba, or if the police find out about your trip in any way, you will face a heavy fine and possible imprisonment.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

You must be talking about the U.N. General Assembly, which of course is a complete and utter disgrace to humankind. And I'll skip the AI propaganda, thanks.

.

RY I think that you will find that AI don't 'do ' propaganda. All their stuff is as accurate as it possibly can be. It has to be or it wouldn't be taken seriously.

And the US is the only govt that has the power to end a US embargo.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes, and you will be breaking the law. If you are caught by US customs with anything purchased in Cuba, or if the police find out about your trip in any way, you will face a heavy fine and possible imprisonment.

You keep intentionally missing the point; Americans do travel to Cuba regardless of whether it is illegal or not.

Haven't you got something better to do than to nitpick for the sake of it? If I didn't know any better I'd say your obsession with me has reached the stage where it is necessary for you to seek help. But I know pride won't let you.

 

[phildwyer]

You keep intentionally missing the point; Americans do travel to Cuba regardless of whether it is illegal or not.

Admit your error with grace, you silly Sassanach. It is against the law for US citizens to travel to Cuba, just as I said, and just as you wrongly denied.

 

[citydreams]

You lefties are like children. Always complaining about "unfairness" when the adults are doing the best they know how. It simply isn't sufficient to harp incessantly about "hypocrisy". To accomplish anything, you have to start somewhere and actually do something.

laughs at the thought of Rogue Yam being able to detect adultlike behaviour.

*starts sharpening spikes*

 

[spring-peeper]

Admit your error with grace, you silly Sassanach. It is against the law for US citizens to travel to Cuba, just as I said, and just as you wrongly denied.

You are both right - there are conditions that will allow Americans to travel into Cuba, but they are very restrictive. For example, students, sports, humanitarian, religion, visiting family have special visas.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.shtml

I also found a couple of articles where the US are clamping down on Canadian and Mexican tourist companies that allow Americans to purchase travel packages.

 

[phildwyer]

You are both right - there are conditions that will allow Americans to travel into Cuba, but they are very restrictive. For example, students, sports, humanitarian, religion, visiting family have special visas.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/cuba.shtml

I also found a couple of articles where the US are clamping down on Canadian and Mexican tourist companies that allow Americans to purchase travel packages.

Technically, the US law is not against *travelling* to Cuba, but against spending any money there, which violates the embargo. In practice, however, people who are found to have travelled to Cuba are prosecuted on the assumption that they must have spent some money.

 

[spring-peeper]

It is illegal to purchase pre-paid all-inclusive travel packages. People don't spend extra money on those except in gift shops.

From what people tell me, these compounds are cordoned off from Cuba and the "guests" are not allowed out.

Also, it is illegal to tip any Cuban's who work in the resort or even give the employees gifts.

(info from a Canadian friend who goes there frequently because he is seeing one of the resorts employees. she is Cuban, btw, and lives outside the hotel compound)

 

[chilango]

The Cuban people will know who stood with them and who gloated over their "fine Montecristos". On that happy day, I won't mind having been on the side of right. Perhaps one day I might smoke my first (and only, I'm sure) cigar in a free and democratic Cuba. For that, I can wait.

Tsk.

Bought and smoked my Montecristos alongside Cubans in what is already a "free and democratic" Cuba. Sure it isn´t perfect by a long shot - and I´m no cheerleader for Castro, but its a hell of a lot betterthan what teh Yanquis want Cuba to be.

When you´ve been there, and seen it and spoken to Cubans in Cuba I may debate the future with you.

Oh I forgot, your free country won´t let its free citizens go there.

 

[chilango]

Read what slaar said...I'm not the only one who knows this and I have actually met and spoke to Americans who have been to Cuba recently. Have you?

You can travel via Mexico or any other Central American country.

I saw Yanquis in Cuba.

Some snuck in via Mexico/Panama.

Others fulfilled certain special criteria. one dick i saw in a resort boasting loudly that he had permission for having "3 Star Anti Castro Status" whateverthe hell that is.

Point is normal US citizens do not simply havethe freedom to travel to Cuba. they either break the law, or use a loophole.

 

[phildwyer]

From what people tell me, these compounds are cordoned off from Cuba and the "guests" are not allowed out.

Of course guests are allowed out! Ordinary Cubans are not allowed in, however, but that is the situation in all-inclusive resorts throughout the Caribbean.

 

[spring-peeper]

Of course guests are allowed out! Ordinary Cubans are not allowed in, however, but that is the situation in all-inclusive resorts throughout the Caribbean.

You could be right - where were you staying?

I only have information from friends and family members, so I can only speak about those resorts.

 

[chilango]

Of course guests are allowed out! Ordinary Cubans are not allowed in, however, but that is the situation in all-inclusive resorts throughout the Caribbean.

True.

I used an all inclusive at one point whilst in Cuba, travelled in and out everyday to visit nearby town and to move on afterwards.

 

[JoePolitix]

 

[richtea]

"You, Mr. Blair, have no morality; however, I will invite Ahmadinejad, the man who is bathed in a holy light, to drink tequila, no, make that tea, with me on the beach at Caracas."

What's the source for this quote?

 

[chilango]

 

[spring-peeper]

True.

I used an all inclusive at one point whilst in Cuba, travelled in and out everyday to visit nearby town and to move on afterwards.

I sit corrected.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What's the source for this quote?

The source?

Johnny's pointy little head.

 

[richtea]

I see.

 

[phildwyer]

You could be right - where were you staying?

I stayed in cheap hotels in Old Havana and Pinar del Rio. I'd *never* stay at an all-inclusive, anywhere--they are a blight on the local economy and ensure that tourist dollars don't get spread around.

 

[slaar]

I stayed in cheap hotels in Old Havana and Pinar del Rio. I'd *never* stay at an all-inclusive, anywhere--they are a blight on the local economy and ensure that tourist dollars don't get spread around.

Presumably that depends on who owns them, where they source their food and drink from and how much they pay their staff?

 

[spring-peeper]

I stayed in cheap hotels in Old Havana and Pinar del Rio. I'd *never* stay at an all-inclusive, anywhere--they are a blight on the local economy and ensure that tourist dollars don't get spread around.

evil things those all-inclusive things.

When I travel, I want to experience something new - not be pampered in some americanized cacoon.

My mother-in-law travels extensively and tried one of those inclusive things in Cuba. Man, was she annoyed when she was only allowed into the village on supervised shopping trips.

 

[phildwyer]

evil things those all-inclusive things.

When I travel, I want to experience something new - not be pampered in some americanized cacoon.

My mother-in-law travels extensively and tried one of those inclusive things in Cuba. Man, was she annoyed when she was only allowed into the village on supervised shopping trips.

In Jamaica, the staff at the all-inclusives basically tell the guests they will be murdered the second they step outside the resort. It works, too.

 

[nino_savatte]

Admit your error with grace, you silly Sassanach. It is against the law for US citizens to travel to Cuba, just as I said, and just as you wrongly denied.

1. You're the Sassenach (if what you say about yourself is true. please also note the correct spelling)
2. You're still talking shit and you have some silly obsession with me.
3. I don't care a monkey's chuff what you think. You are quite clearly wrong, the issue is not whether travel to Cuba is illegal, it is whether Americans travel there or not and they quite clearly do travel to Cuba...regardless of the consequences.

 

[nino_savatte]

Technically, the US law is not against *travelling* to Cuba, but against spending any money there, which violates the embargo. In practice, however, people who are found to have travelled to Cuba are prosecuted on the assumption that they must have spent some money.

The ego has landed.