Chavez tells Blair to "Go right to hell"

[fela fan]

My point is, you go on about the embargo, but otoh, Cuba is supposed to be this great place: home of good medicine, the arts, etc.

That being the case, how much of a negative impact has the embargo really had?

Yeah, well stick to your point then, instead of yanking my jaws open and speaking for me. If you want me to debate your point, then invite me to do so instead of attributing stuff to me i've not said or even touched upon.

Or just be more obvious and less oblique.

 

[fela fan]

Don't know if you've been to Cuba JC, but I have, and I can honestly say that the vast majority of the people there support Castro. Its true that there are quite a few who don't as well, but they tend to be the jineteros. The decent people support him.

This is the impression i've held. What interests me about the man is that i've heard him speak any number of times some eternal truths, and i've heard him say so much pertinent stuff about the criminals that run the US and UK.

A man who speaks so eloquently, pertinently, and truthfully on the international stage just cannot be the monster that is portrayed by US leaders and their apologists.

 

[Fez909]

What is the deal with lefties who complain about every single action ever taken by the U.S. while simultaneously demanding more action?

Thanks for answering my questions.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Don't know if you've been to Cuba JC, but I have, and I can honestly say that the vast majority of the people there support Castro. Its true that there are quite a few who don't as well, but they tend to be the jineteros. The decent people support him.

Of course they do. It has to do with the schooling.

The vast majority of the Hitler Youth supported Hitler, too.

I bring this up because of the Charisma thread.

 

[phildwyer]

Anyone who visits Cuba would have to say the same. I have a mate who's very right-wing, he hates Castro and all he stands for, but even he had to admit to being impressed by the level of popular supprt Castro has. No Western leader enjoys nearly as much.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yeah, well stick to your point then, instead of yanking my jaws open and speaking for me. If you want me to debate your point, then invite me to do so instead of attributing stuff to me i've not said or even touched upon.

Or just be more obvious and less oblique.

What are you on about?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Anyone who visits Cuba would have to say the same. I have a mate who's very right-wing, he hates Castro and all he stands for, but even he had to admit to being impressed by the level of popular supprt Castro has. No Western leader enjoys nearly as much.

A lot of westerners go to Cuba to enlist the services of the numerous young hookers there, who are working for the yankee dollar.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://www.coas.uncc.edu/latinamerican/latinhistory/National/ConLA/ConLA1.jpg

 

[rogue yam]

I can honestly say that the vast majority of the people there support Castro.

Then why not have a fair, free election?

 

[phildwyer]

The vast majority of the Hitler Youth supported Hitler, too.

But not the vast majority of Germans, which is the relevant comparison. No, its truly not a matter of indoctrination. Cubans are highly knowledgeable about history and world politics--much more so than the citizens of the UK, USA or Canada. They know the misery people live in throughout the rest of the Caribbean, and they are rightly grateful to Castro for saving them from that fate.

 

[phildwyer]

Then why not have a fair, free election?

What, like we do in the USA?

 

[fela fan]

Then why not have a fair, free election?

oh yeah, well your country don't do them so stop being such a hypocrite.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But not the vast majority of Germans, which is the relevant comparison. No, its truly not a matter of indoctrination. Cubans are highly knowledgeable about history and world politics--much more so than the citizens of the UK, USA or Canada. They know the misery people live in throughout the rest of the Caribbean, and they are rightly grateful to Castro for saving them from that fate.

If Hitler had stayed in power for more than one generation, the indoctrinated young generation would have come of age, and the majority would then have adored him.

It happens with a lot of dictators with longevity, including Khaddafy, etc.

 

[fela fan]

But not the vast majority of Germans, which is the relevant comparison. No, its truly not a matter of indoctrination. Cubans are highly knowledgeable about history and world politics--much more so than the citizens of the UK, USA or Canada. They know the misery people live in throughout the rest of the Caribbean, and they are rightly grateful to Castro for saving them from that fate.

He's just being patronising towards the cubans phil.

Good to read your comments in the interests of balance on this thread.

 

[phildwyer]

A lot of westerners go to Cuba to enlist the services of the numerous young hookers there, who are working for the yankee dollar.

True, there are a lot of hookers, pimps and drug dealers there. *They* are the ones who hate Castro and want to run away to the USA.

 

[rogue yam]

Thanks for answering my questions.

I though your post was far too scattershot to be worth much trouble. I pick and choose which points to respond to here on u75 since my conservative viewpoint is so starkly at odds with most other posters'. I simply don't have the time to reply to everything that gets hurled at me here.

 

[fela fan]

If Hitler had stayed in power for more than one generation, the indoctrinated young generation would have come of age, and the majority would then have adored him.

It happens with a lot of dictators with longevity, including Khaddafy, etc.

And just how and where did you derive this insight?

It doesn't work in burma, for one.

You really are sounding patronising here. You have totally ignored the flame of freedom that burns in all humans, whether they have it or not, they yearn it.

 

[phildwyer]

If Hitler had stayed in power for more than one generation, the indoctrinated young generation would have come of age, and the majority would then have adored him.

Yes, because unlike Castro, Hitler just *killed* anyone who didn't support him.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But not the vast majority of Germans, which is the relevant comparison. No, its truly not a matter of indoctrination. Cubans are highly knowledgeable about history and world politics--much more so than the citizens of the UK, USA or Canada. They know the misery people live in throughout the rest of the Caribbean, and they are rightly grateful to Castro for saving them from that fate.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y01/may01/25e8.htm

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/11/1/154315.shtml

 

[Fez909]

I though your post was far too scattershot to be worth much trouble. I pick and choose which points to respond to here on u75 since my conservative viewpoint is so starkly at odds with most other posters'. I simply don't have the time to reply to everything that gets hurled at me here.

"scat·ter·shot Audio pronunciation of "scattershot" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sktr-sht)
adj.

Covering a wide range in a random way; indiscriminate"

By scattershot, I take it you mean the direct addressing of each point (until I got bored) the president made in the link you posted?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, because unlike Castro, Hitler just *killed* anyone who didn't support him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4709661.stm

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But either way, the picture of Cuba today is one of economic hardship and isolation. In April, 2003, while the world watched the Iraqi regime fall, Castro drew international criticism to Cuba from the European Union, the U.S., Latin America - and even the Pope - for a crackdown on dissent that imprisoned 75 journalists, dissidents, and librarians with sentences of up to 28 years in jail and witnessed the firing squad executions of three men convicted of hijacking a ferry.

Despite an increase in tourism, Cuba's economy is limping along, with the worst recession since 1994: rationing is still in place, the sugar industry is as bad as it's ever been, and investment is stagnant.

Cuba's economy is aided by an estimated $1 billion in cash remittances sent to relatives each year by Cubans living abroad, allowed under the embargo. Tourism has become a cash cow, with more revenue than sugar production.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/28/opinion/main565321.shtml

 

[phildwyer]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4709661.stm

As your source says:

"Cuba's long-standing position is that dissidents are not representative of public opinion, but rather mercenaries in the pay of the US."

That position is absolutely correct.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

As your source says:

"Cuba's long-standing position is that dissidents are not representative of public opinion, but rather mercenaries in the pay of the US."

That position is absolutely correct.

So by definition, if you disagree with Castro, you're an american spy?

Come on.

 

[phildwyer]

So by definition, if you disagree with Castro, you're an american spy?

Come on.

The only significant opposition to Castro comes, as it has always come, from the "gusanos," the bourgeoisie who fled to Miami. Of *course* they're funded by the USA, they don't even deny it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The only significant opposition to Castro comes, as it has always come, from the "gusanos," the bourgeoisie who fled to Miami. Of *course* they're funded by the USA, they don't even deny it.

Did you read in the article that a major source of foreign income is money sent home by expatriate cubans, mostly in the US, to the tune of one billion a year?

I guess the relationship is somewhat complex.

 

[Fez909]

And did you know that the money sent home to the families of ex-pats is capped by the USA? America, land of the free!

 

[phildwyer]

Did you read in the article that a major source of foreign income is money sent home by expatriate cubans, mostly in the US, to the tune of one billion a year?

I guess the relationship is somewhat complex.

Its really not that complex. The Miami Cubans hate Castro, but they want to support their families. I think that if you were a Cuban in Cuba, the salient point would be to compare your standard of living with those in Jamiaca, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Trinidad, and even Puerto Rico--which is of course US territory. Cubans live a *much* better life than other Caribbeans, and they know it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Its really not that complex. The Miami Cubans hate Castro, but they want to support their families. I think that if you were a Cuban in Cuba, the salient point would be to compare your standard of living with those in Jamiaca, Haiti, the Dominican Republic, Trinidad, and even Puerto Rico--which is of course US territory. Cubans live a *much* better life than other Caribbeans, and they know it.

But Miami is 90 miles away, and they don't live as well as that.